Nothing left to tithe

[disciplehelovestoo]

53 minutes ago, RobertS said:

That is too easy an assumption to make, especially when the "cost of living" is so high nowadays, wages are not keeping up and unemployment is through the roof (no,Ii do not believe the government's "figures"). What is your answer when "you pay your debts quickly", only to find that those debts are food, medicine, rent and utilities and there is nothing left over?

Which do you cut?

if you borrow to pay for basic necessities, you'll eventually run out of credit and have to make this decision about what to cut, won't you?  wouldn't it be better to make it now, before your debt grows to that point of shutting off more credit?

i don't know your circumstances, but i do know what the Master told us all:

Mat 6:24-34 KJV
(24)  No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
(25)  Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
(26)  Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
(27)  Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
(28)  And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
(29)  And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
(30)  Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
(31)  Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
(32)  (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
(33)  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
(34)  Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
 

the first step is to set your heart to believe this:

seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you

God has placed His own credibility on the line here; surely He will make good on this promise.  i've been through extended unemployment, and i've struggled under crushing debt - and i can tell you that i didn't get into those situations by seeking first the kingdom of God - i got into those situations by doing what was right in my own eyes.  eventually i humbled myself before God, received His forgiveness for trying to do things my own way, and placed my trust in this promise - and although it didn't happen overnight, and i had to scrutinize what i really needed at the expense of my wants as a first step, the Lord led me out of debt and into my own house and land - and He wants to do this for you too.

[Qnts2]

22 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

That's a relief, partly at least.    For further ((one)) example from Scripture, in BOTH the OT and the NT , what were God's people instructed if someone asked them to give them a ride 20 miles ((paraphrased for today's use)) with their back pack or luggage ? ((back then, it was or could be a very disliked soldier,  or a person of a different tribe or an 'untouchable'))

1) get a credit history/ do a credit check/ verify employment.

2) help them as able without expecting anything in return.

3) other. 

 

Other.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, RobertS said:

You can plan as much as you like: it took another helping me to get out of the poverty I was in (I am not there now). But I have seen too often folks left to rot while others assumed that "it was their own fault" or "they smust have sinned to have that happen".

And with this reply (you posted while I was finishing my previous post, so I wanted to give you an answer before departing) I am done.

I believe that is what the tithe is for. Not only to that God as the giver of all you have, but to bless those in need. Any believer can be put in either end of the exchange for God's purposes.

[Guest]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 3:13 PM, thereselittleflower said:

  

 

Abraham didn't tithe?

What do the scriptures say:

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land,or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. מַעֲשֵׂר maʻăsêr, mah-as-ayr'; or מַעֲשַׂר maʻăsar; and (in plural) feminine מַעַשְׂרָה maʻasrâh; from H6240; a tenth; especially a tithe:—tenth (part), tithe(-ing).   So what else do the scriptures say about Abraham and a tithe? Heb 7:1   ¶ For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;  Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

The first time it is called a tithe may have been in the Mosaic covenant, but that is not the first time we see it.

And when Abraham paid a tenth, it was indeed a tithe, as Paul tells us very clearly:

 

• Heb 7:6

  But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

• Heb 7:9

  And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

  Heb 7:10

  For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

 

 

Most definitely Abraham paid tithes.

 

 

 

Hebrews makes that quite clear.....

[simplejeff]

Besides helping whoever needs help and asked for help, the only other I remember Jesus mentioned was telling them "go and be warm" , or walking on the other side of the street from them ignoring them,and not helping them.

Is there another option in Jesus Words or in Scripture ? 

2 hours ago, Qnts2 said:

Other.

 

 

[Qnts2]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

Besides helping whoever needs help and asked for help, the only other I remember Jesus mentioned was telling them "go and be warm" , or walking on the other side of the street from them ignoring them,and not helping them.

Is there another option in Jesus Words or in Scripture ? 

 

Matthew 10:16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.

There are people who are not so honest or nice.  There was a man who was very opposed to Jesus and anyone out on the street to share the gospel. This man had read the NT looking for a way to trap or harass Christians, and try to stop them from sharing the gospel. A pastor who was not familiar with the man came out on that street to share the gospel. It was a very cold day.  The man approached he pastor and asked for his coat.

Luke 6:30 Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back.

So the pastor gave the man his coat. The man walked away with the Pastors coat laughing. On his way, he said something like 'I got myself another stupid Christians coat to go in my collection'. That man actually had a well paying job and had no need for the pastors coat. What is worse is that the Pastor was now so cold, he had to leave and couldn't continue to be on the street sharing the gospel. That was one of the mans purposes. To make a Christian look stupid and to keep a Christian from sharing the gospel. A friend of mine was there and explained to the Pastor what had happened and why. 

Another example, in San Francisco, there are high traffic areas in business districts where people will go, put a blanket on the ground and hold up signs asking for money. Some have found it a good technique to bring a dog with them because people don't want to see a dog lack food. Some of these beggars have English Bull dogs which naturally have a very sad face. I have wanted an English Bull dog but can not afford one as they cost from $1500.00 to $3000.00 dollars. Some of these poorly dressed beggars panhandle as a profession. There are actually schools to be an effective panhandler, and having a dog with you generates sympathy and raises more donations. Some of the panhandlers, at the end of the day, walk to their very nice cars, and drive home to a nice 3 bedroom, 2 bath home. Some are genuine and are unable to work, and really do need the money. 

So, not only are we to give to those who are in need, but we are also to be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. Don't just give to anyone who asks, but give to those who really do have a need. Yes, sometimes we will be fooled, but take care with the money and time God gave you. I say time, because some people will be time eaters taking away from others who really do need our time. 

 

 

[simplejeff]

.Good , thank you.  I agree, basically.

 

[JohnD]

On 2/7/2016 at 10:28 PM, Jpez1295 said:

Hello,

My name is Joanne. I graduated college last year and I started working but I'm having trouble tithing. I'm the first in my family to complete college and the family obligations are making it difficult for me to tithe. 

 I understand that tithing is important and I know the consequences for not tithing, but it's still hard. I also know that my tithes should be the first thing I take out. 

I have a million excuses mainly bills, student loan payments and being the only financial support for my family.

That being said, how do I tithe when I have nothing left to give?  

Begging the pardon of the pastor / teachers whose livelihood depends on the tithe and who must from time to time coax their constituents to pay up... the tithe is a teaching tool. 

The objective of tithing is faithfully prioritizing our lives.

God is not broke.

And he is not keeping accounts as to how many times you missed out on paying the first 10% of everything you earned. 

Again, the salesmanship of some pastors on this topic (even when feigning discomfort on the matter) is as the burdens of the Pharisees upon the Jews when Jesus said they lay heavy burdens on the people, but are unwilling to lift a finger when it comes to the things God actually wants done.

Like teaching the believers in Christ that we are all priests of God (which would undermine their power and prestige). But it would also lift a heavy burden from them (the pastors) as well. God did not intend there should be a division between clergy and laity in the Body Christian. Nor that only a priestly tribe (as it were) would receive all the responsibility... as most worldly, lazy, or uninformed believers are willing to do (minimizing their time and efforts as believers in Jesus to passing them along to the "professional" Christians).

Ten percent, to those who shirk their duties to Christ (knowingly or not) are getting off cheap. Jesus doesn't want ten percent but it all (you all). 

Luke 14:26–35 (AV)

26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?

32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?

35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

When we realize we are priests of God (1 Peter 2:3-9, Revelation 1:6, Revelation 5:10) and we start living up to that calling and spiritual service, then there is no need to make such efforts to tithe. But until then 10% is a good starting place to pay for the bills of having a Church congregation hall with regular meetings and outreaches etc.

Remember, we are all priests of God and it's past time we began living like it.

 

[Willa]

ESV

2Co 8:1  We want you to know, brothers, about the grace of God that has been given among the churches of Macedonia,

2Co 8:2  for in a severe test of affliction, their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part.

2Co 8:3  For they gave according to their means, as I can testify, and beyond their means, of their own accord,

2Co 8:4  begging us earnestly for the favor of taking part in the relief of the saints—

2Co 8:5  and this, not as we expected, but they gave themselves first to the Lord and then by the will of God to us.

 

You have apparently done this and also have a deep desire to give.  I found myself in that place also once.  Both of us had experienced reduction in wages, elimination of overtime pay etc.  We had to make deep cuts ourselves; our daughter in law found herself to be pregnant right after our son got a new job and the promised raises did not come.  They had no food and were not yet established in a church.  So any money I had for tithes went to them, and we also took them shopping for groceries.  She was hospitalized with kidney stones as well.  It would have been so wrong for us not to help them.  

 

 

2Co 8:11  So now finish doing it as well, so that your readiness in desiring it may be matched by your completing it out of what you have.

2Co 8:12  For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have.

2Co 8:13  For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness

2Co 8:14  your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness.

 

In the future you will have a time when you can give freely, as your heart desires.  I share your desire to support my local church.  

Our pastor asks us not to tithe.  He asks new comers not to give at all, saying that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills and does not need our money.  Pastor depends on God to move people to supply the needs of the church and to have more to help those in need.  Our church stocks a pantry for the poor and also gives to a Christian free medical clinic and a clinic that has alternatives for abortion and counseling.  We also  provide work for those in need, who need money for utilities and rent, and pay those bills in exchange for the work  Our pastors are not impoverished, but they live frugally in modest houses.  They often take in the homeless and they are an example to us all. 

 

Those of us who have been in need often have more compassion for the poor.  Right now your ministry is to your family.  That is the right thing to do.  Don't beat yourself up for not being able to give to your church or to others  God is showing you that your family takes priority.   As a mom, my first area of ministry has been to my family as well.  Now it is to my husband.  God, family, then the to the poor churches and to our pastors and church.  "A laborer is worthy of his hire" means that we do need to support our pastors and church staff.  But our priority is our family.

[Ezra]

On 09/02/2016 at 10:56 AM, Qnts2 said:

Abraham gave 10% of the spoils of war, that he did not want to keep. It was not income.

I'm not sure this is how Scripture interprets the tithes which Abraham gave to Melchizedek.  Indeed, he recognized that Melchizedek was no ordinary king but a king-priest of the Most High God and therefore this was the appropriate offering to God. Perhaps he saw the pre-incarnate Christ in Melchizedek, the mysterious king-priest without father, without mother, without descent.