Reinitin Posted February 23, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 1 minute ago, thereselittleflower said: That avoids my question. In fact, it doesn't address it at all. Unless you are suggesting a plant has consciousness and knows what it is doing and does so purposefully and deliberately? i think plants just obey and don't strive to be anything other then what they are. Bible says all creation testifies. who could argue with a plant? or who would a plant with hold its fruit from? anyway people give and receive Gods love without fully understanding it, without being able to explain it everyday. Often its people that can't receive it and don't give it because they don't don't have it that want to explain it and understand it instead of just give and receive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 23, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Reinitin said: i think plants just obey and don't strive to be anything other then what they are. Bible says all creation testifies. who could argue with a plant? or who would a plant with hold its fruit from? anyway people give and receive Gods love without fully understanding it, without being able to explain it everyday. Often its people that can't receive it and don't give it because they don't don't have it that want to explain it and understand it instead of just give and receive it. Obeying physical laws of nature is not the same thing has having the ability of intellect and reason. Obeying physical laws of nature is not the same thing as having the ABILITY to know God's love. I thought we were talking about the ABILITY to know God's love, not the built in laws of nature causing nature to "testify" to God. As I said none of this addresses my question, unless you are suggesting a plant has consciousness and knows what it is doing and does so purposefully and deliberately? Is this what you are suggesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted February 23, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 He guards the steps of His faithful ones, but the wicked perish in darkness, for a man does not prevail by his own strength. For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will set aside the understanding of the experts. Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him. For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. The Spirit of the Lord will rest on Him— a Spirit of wisdom and understanding, a Spirit of counsel and strength, a Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned and revealed them to infants. that by Him you were enriched in everything—in all speech and all knowledge. If I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. For God who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledgeof God’s glory in the face of Jesus Christ. and to know the Messiah’s love that surpasses knowledge, so you may be filled with all the fullness of God. I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, would give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him. All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Him. 2 Peter 1:6 knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with godliness 2 Peter 1:8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they will keep you from being useless or unfruitful in theknowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, Reinitin said: He guards the steps of His faithful ones, but the wicked perish in darkness, for a man does not prevail by his own strength. For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will set aside the understanding of the experts. Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him. For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. The Spirit of the Lord will rest on Him— a Spirit of wisdom and understanding, a Spirit of counsel and strength, a Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned and revealed them to infants. that by Him you were enriched in everything—in all speech and all knowledge. If I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. For God who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledgeof God’s glory in the face of Jesus Christ. and to know the Messiah’s love that surpasses knowledge, so you may be filled with all the fullness of God. I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, would give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him. All the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Him. 2 Peter 1:6 knowledge with self-control, self-control with endurance, endurance with godliness 2 Peter 1:8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they will keep you from being useless or unfruitful in theknowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. I do not understand your answer to tlf? I do not comprehend how it corresponds or relates to her question. Maybe I am a dullard here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted February 23, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Joline said: I do not understand your answer to tlf? I do not comprehend how it corresponds or relates to her question. Maybe I am a dullard here? Sweet Theresa, do you realise it appears we just trampled over the beauty of the gospel and our first love, which is a complete work of God on behalf of men (we love because he first loved us) to split hairs defending intellect, reason and study. It's the Lord who saves man. Forgive me for even entertaining such a ridiculous conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted February 23, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 12 minutes ago, Joline said: I do not understand your answer to tlf? I do not comprehend how it corresponds or relates to her question. Maybe I am a dullard here? The conversation wasn't about her question it was about her statement that Without our reason and intellect, we could not understand anything. I do not believe the Lords works are limited by our intelligence. I have a 40 year old niece with brain damage that can't understand why dr suess wrote about green eggs if there is no such thing. But she can preach the Gospel in power and has caused every member of my family to repent of stupidity by speaking truth in power with conviction. God uses her all the time to keep us humble and seeing what love really is. So i got defensive of her statement and apologized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 23, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2016 9 minutes ago, Reinitin said: The conversation wasn't about her question it was about her statement that Without our reason and intellect, we could not understand anything. I do not believe the Lords works are limited by our intelligence. I have a 40 year old niece with brain damage that can't understand why dr suess wrote about green eggs if there is no such thing. But she can preach the Gospel in power and has caused every member of my family to repent of stupidity by speaking truth in power with conviction. God uses her all the time to keep us humble and seeing what love really is. So i got defensive of her statement and apologized. Am I really not being plain enough so as to not be misunderstood? I'm not talking about reduced ability to reason, or reduced intellect. I said WITHOUT reason or intellect. If there is no reason or intellect, then there is no ability to comprehend anything. This means a COMPETE AND TOTAL ABSENCE of intellect and reason. So with that in mind, can we try this again? This is why I asked the question: Do plants have reason and intellect? Can they know and understand God's love? your response seems to indicate you believe that plants have consciousness. I asked you about this but never saw a response: are you suggesting a plant has consciousness and knows what it is doing and does so purposefully and deliberately? Is this what you are suggesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Reinitin said: The conversation wasn't about her question it was about her statement that Without our reason and intellect, we could not understand anything. I do not believe the Lords works are limited by our intelligence. I have a 40 year old niece with brain damage that can't understand why dr suess wrote about green eggs if there is no such thing. But she can preach the Gospel in power and has caused every member of my family to repent of stupidity by speaking truth in power with conviction. God uses her all the time to keep us humble and seeing what love really is. So i got defensive of her statement and apologized. I also do not see the conversation as you do either. Your niece has intellect and reason. Without which she would understand nothing, nor would anyone of us. I think what I am seeing here, is a matter of degree, being made an issue, rather than an absence altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereselittleflower Posted February 23, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 58 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 5,457 Content Per Day: 1.69 Reputation: 4,220 Days Won: 37 Joined: 07/01/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2016 29 minutes ago, Reinitin said: Sweet Theresa, do you realise it appears we just trampled over the beauty of the gospel and our first love, which is a complete work of God on behalf of men (we love because he first loved us) to split hairs defending intellect, reason and study. It's the Lord who saves man. Forgive me for even entertaining such a ridiculous conversation. I simply questioned your first statement and all I have seen in response is a waffling and avoidance of the implications of what you've said. Here is what the scriptures say: Matthew 22:37Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'Mark 12:30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'Mark 12:33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."Luke 10:27He answered, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "Mind" means: mind mīnd/ noun 1. the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought. "as the thoughts ran through his mind, he came to a conclusion" synonyms: brain, intelligence, intellect, intellectual capabilities, brains, brainpower,wits, understanding, reasoning, judgment, sense, head; More 2. a person's intellect. "his keen mind" synonyms: brain, intelligence, intellect, intellectual capabilities, brains, brainpower,wits, understanding, reasoning, judgment, sense, head; More Obviously, contrary to the implication of your first question in your OP, God is very happy for us to use our intellect and reasoning powers to help us know Him and love Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natasha Posted February 23, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 50 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1973 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Whaaaaaa? pretty sure I won't be the only one responding that way lol! very confusededed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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