pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[7Dove77]

Hazard,

My dear brother in Christ,

144,ooo, are NOT JUST JEWS..!!

They are of all nations,and nationalities,of all language.,cultures.

From all the (12) tribes..(including jews)

 

Blessings,

7Dove77

 

[ENOCH2010]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

That there are two main resurrections from the dead with a thousand years between them. The first is that of the blessed and holy; and this is before the thousand years, for we read "THE REST OF THE DEAD LIVED NOT AGAIN UNTILL THE THJOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED" (Rev. 20:4-15).

The first resurrection happens at the second coming, prior to the 1000 year reign. The second resurrection happens after the 1000 year reign, where in the Bible is it written about a resurrection for the church pre-trib.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout and the trump of God, and the dead in Christ rise first then we who are alive will be called up to meet the Lord in the air. This is the rapture everybody talks about, the only resurrection that this speaks of has to be the one just prior to the 1000 year reign, which happens at the second coming.

[7Dove77]

The jews,are not going to be the only ones living in the (NEW JERUSALEM,When JESUS CHRIST <RETURNS.

 

Blessings,

7Dove77

[Serving]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

This is not personal. I am not refuting anything. I am quoting Scripture.

Don't get me wrong, I am not being personal either, I am quoting scripture too .. we CAN speak freely okay .. I can take it.

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If you are correct and there is a post trib rapture then instead of God ushering in the age to come that is is that time from the second advent of Christ to the New Heaven and the New Earth. It takes in only ONE dispensation - the Millennium.

Not true, it is PRECISELY the resurrection itself which LEADS into the millennium .. and that resurrection happens on the "last trump". AFTER that resurrection, and on the SAME DAY, Satan gets locked up, the worlds armies have been destroyed in Megiddo, Jesus then COMES from the clouds to Israel with ALL His saints to save the REMNANT of Israel from total annihilation (no doubt the leaders "safe" in their countries consider NUKES), that 1/3 of surviving Israelites remain FLESH because they were not IN Christ, hence NOT being taken up to meet the Lord in the air .. and when it is written in Zechariah that Jesus and His saints COME, they are coming FROM THE CLOUDS is what is meant, NOT coming from heaven, coming from WHERE they were gathered to Him in the first place .. the CLOUDS. 

Then Jesus sends His saints to "lay hold" upon all the kings & the mighty of the earth to lock them up in a "dark prison" (death) until the 2nd judgement .. THEN Jesus raises EVERY generation of "good figs" of Israel IN THE FLESH to come into the restored kingdom of Israel to be ruled over by the resurrected SPIRIT saints who have become like the angels .. and WHAT are angels?

Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

They are SPIRIT beings, NOT "flesh and bone".. YOU have flesh, and YOU have bones too, just putting "glorified" before it doesn't change a thing, flesh and bone is MORTAL and not ETERNAL unlike SPIRIT.

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This will be the last age before the eternal perfect state when God will again be all-in-all as before the rebellion started in the universe.

 

Not sure where YOUR doctrine is coming from within that statement .. so let me say plainly where I am coming from ..

Right now, this generation is what I am terming the last generation before the 2nd coming .. THEN Christ returns to usher in the millennium where He reigns over earth whilst Satan is imprisoned .. after the 1000 years Satan is released to gather Gog & Magog .. THEN when they surround the "camp of the saints" (the millennial kingdom) God destroys them all .. then comes the 2nd judgement, then, after some time, more than 7 years post millennium/2nd resurrection in fact (for a certain mystery to do with the 2nd resurrection) where NO EVIL exists anymore, God creates a new heaven and earth .. THEN the eternal perfect state begins where all will be in all. 

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In Rev. 20:1-15 we have the expulsion of Satan from the Earth, the Millennial Reign of Christ and His saints, Satan's post millennial career his doom, and then the final judgment.

Agreed.

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Rev. 20: 1, And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2, And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    4, And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5, But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    7, And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    8, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    9, And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    10, And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    11, And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12, And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13, And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell1 delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14, And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This thread is about the Pre-Tribulation rapture. God is not going to rapture anyone post trib. Everything that happens post trib. is explained in the above Scriptures. After the tribulation God Himself along with His Son and Holy Spirit will set up a divine government on Earth over all nations forever. The first thousand years of God's reign is called the Millennium which simply means one thousand years. The thousand years reign of Christ (Rev. 20:1-10). There is no mention of God ever taking anyone away from the Earth after the tribulation and "squirreling" them away at this very important time. All His saints will be here, they came with Him they will stay with Him. Those who were not raptured but repented and survived the tribulation and never faltered when Satan was loosed for a time after the Millennium will go on into the new earth and live forever.

That is clearly NOT pre-tribulation .. who taught you that if I may ask?

It speaks so plainly I can't fathom how anybody can glean it as being pre-tribulation in all exasperation !!!!!!!!

v1-3 Satan being locked up on that great DAY of the Lord RIGHT BEFORE the millennium begins .. that is POST TRIBULATION .. Satan is still here right up to the 2nd coming so it can't be anything else at all, impossible to the power of infinity.

v4-6 is the MILLENNIUM

v7-10 is POST MILLENNIUM since Gog & Magog happens AFTER the 1000k

v11-15 Is the end of evil for all eternity which obviously LEADS towards the new heaven and earth which only occurs AFTER all evil is destroyed and the Father Himself dwells amongst us ALL.

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One thing we can emphasize in connection with the 1,000 years: that this will only be the first 1,000 years wherein Christ will reign on earth. He will continue to reign over the same kingdom eternally ; and the first 1,000 years will be for the express purpose of ridding the earth of all rebellion, destroying all enemies, destroying death and sin, and restoring this part of God's universal kingdom to its place over all other creations, as it was before sin entered through Lucifer and Adam who headed the rebellions of their respective kingdoms. In this Millennial age God will gather together all things in Christ, both the things which are in Heaven, and which are on the Earth (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Eph. 1:10; Rev. 22:4-5).

 

Don't mix up the millennium as the part where evil is destroyed, IF I am reading you right? .. evil is NOT destroyed until AFTER the 1000k expires remember? Seeing that Satan is RELEASED after the 1000k to gather the LAST rebellion of all time .. and the millennium is called the "first dominion" .. after that comes eternity.

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Your suggesting all this wont happen, because God is going to rapture away all those in Him to Heaven, REALLY ?

That statement does not match my view, with due respect, you don't know my stance well enough just yet friend.

But I do believe I know where your doctrine makers went wrong .. their inability/confusion to understand that the millennial kingdom contains TWO states of being .. the FLESH Israelites from ALL past generations who were in the basket of "good figs" but not the "bad figs" that MUST be brought back in the FLESH to receive the Holy Spirit as we did, and go through that ENGRAFTED PROCESS as we did BEFORE being eligible for Romans 8:11 .. because it is the DOCTRINE of Christ they MUST receive else they will not be changed to SPIRIT in accord with Romans 8:11 again.

And those flesh Israelites will be ruled over by the resurrected SPIRIT saints who will be the kings and priests as is written .. hence the millennial kingdom containing two states of being, flesh and Spirit saints.

And what do we have similar today as an example?

We are told we have angels watching over us and reporting to God, that is SPIRIT watching over FLESH .. and since it is written that WE become as the angels who it is also written are SPIRIT beings, then the exact same concept will be repeated during the millennium but with one main difference .. the resurrected saints WILL interact with the flesh Jews, that is, the flesh Jews WILL KNOW of our presence WHEN we let it known .. i can give you an example even if you are not aware of it ?  

There are many scriptures speaking of flesh Israelites all throughout the OT during the millennium .. one only has to look.

Oh, i should point out, ANY Jew who is IN Christ BEFORE the 2nd coming WILL be a SPIRIT saint too ruling over the flesh Israelites .. just to make that clear.

[coheir]

2 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Jesus was raised from the dead by the Father and now sits at His right hand in a flesh and bone body, only Glorified as we shall be.

Acts 2: 31, He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    32, This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
    33, Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping and Jesus, after He was resurrected appeared before her and:  John 20 :16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
    17, Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

She  turned toward Him and He said;

John 20:17, Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

He went to Heaven and back that day and later;

Remember Thomas, when he said he did not believe Christ was risen? Well Jesus appeared to him and the others in a closed windowless room and said;

Luke 24:39, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Flesh and bone, Glorified enters heaven no worries at all.

 

one more question  the bible says ( for humans ) the life is in the blood so now Jesus is sitting by the right hand does he have blood in his flesh body.

oh and I had asked are we to be in heaven or are we to live on earth forever?

thanks

[HAZARD]

2 hours ago, Serving said:

They are SPIRIT beings, NOT "flesh and bone".. YOU have flesh, and YOU have bones too, just putting "glorified" before it doesn't change a thing, flesh and bone is MORTAL and not ETERNAL unlike SPIRIT.
  

 

God is a spirit, angels are spirits, the Word who became flesh was a spirit, now, since He died and was resurrected, HE IS FLESH AND BONE! he died, His spirit went to hell, His body remained in the grave. When He was raised, His spirit was reunited with His body. He has a flesh and bone body, no doubt about this.

Luke 24:36, And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
    37, But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had see a spirit.
    38, And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
    39, Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see me have.

I say it is glorified because this flesh and bone body appeared out of no where and came through walls into a windowless room and appeared before the disciples.

John 20:26, And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus,  the doors being shut,  and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. he appeared in this shut room, in His flesh and bone body.  Its no ordinary flesh and bone body to be able to pass through walls, its no ordinary flesh and bone body to be able to go to Heaven and back in one day after appearing to Mary?

And in this flesh and bone body He sits at His fathers right hand in heaven, NOW!

Heb. 1:3, Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

He has the scars to prove He is flesh and bone for ever. Zech. 13:6, And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

 

If you don't see this, what else do you not see or understand?

[HAZARD]

14 minutes ago, coheir said:

one more question  the bible says ( for humans ) the life is in the blood so now Jesus is sitting by the right hand does he have blood in his flesh body.

oh and I had asked are we to be in heaven or are we to live on earth forever?

thanks

God the Father and the Holy Spirit have spirit bodies, The Word also has a spirit body, now He has a flesh and bone body.

God has a spirit body with bodily parts like a man. This is proved by hundreds of Scriptures that do not need interpretation. God is a Spirit being, infinate, eternal, immutable, self-existent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, invisible, impartial, immortal, absolutely holy, full of wisdom, full of knowledge, and just in all things. God is known in Scripture by over two hundred names. He is describes as being like any other person as to having a body, soul, and spirit (Job 13:8; Heb. 1:3; Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-7). He is a spirit being with a body (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-6, 9-19, Exodus 24:11; Gen. 18' 32:24-32; Ezek. 1:26-28; Acts 7:54-59; Rev. 4:2-4; 5:1, 5-7; 22:4-5); shape (John 5:37); form (Phil. 2:5-7, same Greek word as in Mark 16:12, which refers to bodily form); and an image and likeness of a man (Gen. 1:26; 9:6; Ezek. 1:26-28; 1 Cor. 11:7; jas. 3:9; Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-6).

He has a heart (Gen. 6:6; 8:21); so we can assume His heart pumps blood!, He also has hands and fingers (Exod. 31:18; Psalms 8:3-6; Rev. 5:1, 6-7); Nostrils (Ps. 18:8); mouth (Num. 12:8); lips and tongue (Isa. 30:27; feet (Ezek. 1:27; Exodus 24:10); eyes, eyelids, sight (Ps. 11:4; 18:24; 33:18); voice (Ps. 29; Rev. 10:3-4; Gen. 1); breath (Gen. 2:70; ears (Ps. 18:6); head, hair, face, arms (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-19; Rev. 5:1; loins (Ezek. 1:26:28; 8:1-4); bodily presence (Gen. 3:8; 18:1-22; Job 1:6-12; 2:1-7; Exodus 24:10-11); and many other bodily parts as required by Him to be a person with a body.

Jesus now has a flesh and bone body;

Luke 24:36, And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
    37, But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had see a spirit.
    38, And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
    39, Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bone as ye see me have.

I say it is glorified because this flesh and bone body appeared out of no where and came through walls into a windowless room and appeared before the disciples.

We will all live here on the Earth with God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, forever. God will bring His city, New Jerusalem to the Earth to be with us forever.

Rev. 3:12, Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 Rev. 21:1, And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    2, And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3, And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[7Dove77]

Coheir,

We will be on earth,in the "NEW JERUSALEM",

Rev 21:2-3)-And ,I John, saw a 'holy City" NEW JERUSALEM",coming down from God out of heaven ,prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice

out of heaven,saying,behold,the tabernacle of God (is with men),and (He will dwell with them),and they shall be his people,and God (HIMSELF) shall be with them.,and be their God,Amen..

 

Rev 22:12-14)-Yes,I am coming soon,and bringing my recompense with me,to requite everyone according to his deeds. Iam the Alpha and the Omega the first and the last the beginning and the end. Happy are those who wash their robes clean ! They will have the right to the "Tree of Life" and will enter by gates of the "City".

 

Blessings,With Gods Grace,

7Dove77

[7Dove77]

Hazard,...................................brother in Christ

If jesus is coming back,from where he desended from,(Mount of Olives).

And His New Kingdom will be ,New Jerusalem. (Holy City)

Where is everyone flying to ?    And where are they going ?............( I cannot find any scripture,telling me ,where they  are going in space......help me here..!!

 

Blessings,With Gods Grace,

7Dove77

[Montana Marv]

7 hours ago, Last Daze said:

There's only one first.  It's referred to as the first resurrection.  Not the first resurrections.

More than one.

1 Cor 15:22-24 - For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own turn:  Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.  Phil 3:20,21 - But our citizenship is in heaven.  And we eagerly await a Savior form there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Here it says our citizenship is in heaven.  A Post-Trib Rapture does not avail this.  For we never make it into Heaven.

A Pre-Trib Rapture allows us to get into Heaven (the Fathers House - John 14), and thus our heavenly citizenship is secured.

In Christ

Montana Marv