pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[Montana Marv]

Omgeaman

We as Believers do not know what God has in store for us tomorrow.  We have no idea what our tests and trials will be that day.  It could be death.  It could be a loved one dying, it could be an accident, it could be a financial issue.

Yet once the 70th Week begins there is a clear cut picture of the future events.  So we do know what lies ahead of us; Beheading, Captivity and Starvation.  So this would be a loved one dying, loss of financial control, ongoing accidents for many.

There is a line of demarcation; from not knowing what lies around the corner for us, to defiantly knowing what lies around the corner, for it is spelled out in Scripture.  I guess one should just be prepared.  Going form not knowing to knowing.  What has changed for the Believer?

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

And with that said.

How attainable is it for one to reach a Post-Trib rapture.  Very, very, very few if any will reach it.

Yet for a Pre 70th Week Rapture, it is very attainable for all.

Think about it.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[ENOCH2010]

26 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

And with that said.

How attainable is it for one to reach a Post-Trib rapture.  Very, very, very few if any will reach it.

Yet for a Pre 70th Week Rapture, it is very attainable for all.

Think about it.

In Christ

Montana Marv

That is what I've been saying all along, the pre-trib rapture is a hope, it isn't a fact.

[WilliamL]

On 4/30/2016 at 6:40 PM, HAZARD said:

...The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

There are only there things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments. The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things. It could not refer to the Holy Spirit and governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17). The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

 

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to.

I couldn't let this pass, the glib way you replaced the word WAY with WORLD, thus changing the whole meaning of Paul's teaching. Bad exegesis. Removing something as an impediment -- taking it out of the way -- is a far cry from removing it entirely.

On 4/30/2016 at 3:08 AM, Ezra said:

Yes. The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are described in detail in Revelation chapters 6-18. At the end of the Great Tribulation, Christ descends to earth with His saints and angels. But just before He descends, we see the Marriage of the Lamb. How and when did the saints get to Heaven for that event, if not before the Tribulation? 

There is not even a hint of the Rapture in Rev 6-18. There is no mention of the Church or churches in this same large portion of Scripture.  And what is presumed to be the Rapture in Revelation 14 is nothing of the sort.  It is a harvest of judgement and wrath, and the winepress of the wrath of God is mentioned here.

In Revelation 19, we the the Church already married, not being married: done deal, already accomplished at this time:

19:7 ...because the marriage of the Lamb came [aorist verb, simple past tense], and his wife made [aorist, simple past tense} herself ready.

Likewise in verse 6, "because the Lord God Omnipotent reigned [aorist verb, simple past tense]" -- done deal, already accomplished at the 7th Trumpet. The inhabitants of heaven are here shown to be rejoicing because these things have already been accomplished.

There is far more than a "hint" of the Rapture in chapters 6-7, where we see, in chapter 6, the fulfillment of the Great Tribulation events of Matt. 24:4-31 taking place. And then in chapter 7, we see the Raptured Church "standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes..." --thereby having already fulfilled Christ's words of Luke 21:36:

“Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things [of the Great Tribulation] that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man” -- that is, those of the white robes in Rev. 7 have already been post-trib, 6th-Seal Raptured up to the heavenly throne. Done deal.

[Montana Marv]

29 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

That is what I've been saying all along, the pre-trib rapture is a hope, it isn't a fact.

And the Post - Trib rapture position is unobtainable.  No one will be alive will reach it, so there is no one to fulfill the "Then we who are still alive and left" will meet them in the air.  This cannot be fulfilled, for there will be no one alive to fulfill it.  The Post - Trib position is a false Hope.  Give me a Twenty Dollar Bill and I will put it through a machine that will make it into a Fifty Dollar Bill.  It happened to the previous 4 people.  But with your luck, a One Dollar Bill with come out.  And we five will divide your Twenty Dollar Bill.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Prophet Cam]

Tune in to the “The Trumpets for God’s House Sixth Seal Rapture Teaching” below:

God seems to be shining the light on those who cannot understand the basic concept of the Matthew 24 pre-tribulation gospel.  The church of God where I order my gospel tracts online needed to make sure I believed in the pre-tribulation rapture before I could get tracts last time.  Perry Stone also uses this concept wisely in his teachings. God is dividing the heathen from His bride!  Below is the undeniable pre-tribulation theology. Please take time to study this today:

A. We are currently in the time before the rapture which happens during the sixth seal in Revelation 6, and Matthew 24 when the fig tree buds (which is the abomination which causes desolation sitting in the place where he should not sit, right before Jesus comes for us and the elect are gathered together “from the four winds of Heaven)”. The cosmic signs are the same in both chapters, match them up together. This is the key that unlocked my understanding, several prophecy students will be very blessed when they get this…

B. The Trumpets for God’s house (Joel 2:1, "Blow ye the trumpet in Zion") are not the same as the Trumpet plagues for the world in Revelation 8 (God judges us before the world, 1 Peter 4:17). The Trumpet to gather us from the four winds of heaven in Matthew 24:13 is the wrath of the lamb for the world in Revelation 6:16. It isn’t the last Trumpet plague for the world. The 144,000 are sealed after heaven is silent for about half an hour as we, God’s elect are being ushered into heaven. See Revelation 7:1-4 the four winds, the four corners of the earth, is all the same as Matthew 24. The Trumpet plagues, and bowls are for the world and 144,000…

C. Look at the tribes of the earth during the time of Christ’s return, they’re mourning in Matthew 24:30, and the kings of the earth hid themselves from the wrath of Lamb in Revelation 6:15-17. (Remember I believe the sixth seal wrath of the lamb in Revelation 6:12-17, and rapture in Matthew 24 are the same event). Jesus said “where the carcasses are the eagles will gather in Matthew 24:28, so there’s dead bodies everywhere, a horrible earthquake (Revelation 6:12), and all the tribes of the whole earth are ashamed and afraid, and some are quite irritated when the Lord returns for us.

This is not an out pouring of the Holy Spirit for those who aren’t saved yet. The next event is the sealing of the 144,000 virgins in Revelation 7, I am not so sure there will be any other elect on the earth from that time forward (besides the 2 witnesses who will be killed in front of the world, lie dead for 3.5 days, then called be up to Heaven in Revelation 11:7-13), until the Lord returns with His 144,000 on the Mount of Olives.

D. I also want to point something out about the abomination desolation. The most Holy place is in the hearts and minds of mankind, the place where Christ is supposed to occupy. We are the temple of God, for God. The worship of the Beast is the abomination that causes desolation. He takes the most Holy place in the hearts when mankind hand over their lives to it… Renouncing all that is God, for a man-made god that accepts same sex marriage, the worship of all other gods, and all that is abominable to the living and true God. This Beast will become a menacing force on the globe, and subdue all to form an allegiance with it, or nothing.

However God has made provision for His saints during this hour through the Mystery of God. The Mystery of God infiltrates the spiritual (principality) Beast government system to save us. We can be very confident this power of God (that is like the wind which we cannot see), understands superior concepts and strategies unknown to Satan and his cohorts. God knows the way through all of this, and has given us sufficient power and might to march. Shalom, Prophet Mike

Edited May 1, 2016 by Hisvoiceinme

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

And the Post - Trib rapture position is unobtainable.  No one will be alive will reach it, so there is no one to fulfill the "Then we who are still alive and left" will meet them in the air.  This cannot be fulfilled, for there will be no one alive to fulfill it. 

Using your straw-man version of post-trib, it would be unobtainable. But your straw man version of post-trib fraudulently misstates the 6th Seal, post-trib Rapture, which is very obtainable for "those who are ready."

[Montana Marv]

5 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Using your straw-man version of post-trib, it would be unobtainable. But your straw man version of post-trib fraudulently misstates the 6th Seal, post-trib Rapture, which is very obtainable for "those who are ready."

Not a straw-man at all.  If one looks at the 5th Trumpet...  A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.....  The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; ......

So when does your rapture position occur with relation to this? 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WilliamL]

Just now, Montana Marv said:

Not a straw-man at all.  If one looks at the 5th Trumpet...  A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.....  The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; ......

So when does your rapture position occur with relation to this? 

Well before. The 6th Seal is chapter 6; the 5th Trumpet is chapter 9. These events are sequential: all of the Trumpets take place after the 6th Seal Rapture.

With respect to time and sequence, the 6th Seal post-trib Rapture is much closer to the pre-trib view than most post-trib teachings.

[ENOCH2010]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

And the Post - Trib rapture position is unobtainable.  No one will be alive will reach it, so there is no one to fulfill the "Then we who are still alive and left" will meet them in the air.  This cannot be fulfilled, for there will be no one alive to fulfill it.  The Post - Trib position is a false Hope.  Give me a Twenty Dollar Bill and I will put it through a machine that will make it into a Fifty Dollar Bill.  It happened to the previous 4 people.  But with your luck, a One Dollar Bill with come out.  And we five will divide your Twenty Dollar Bill.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Marv do you disagree with the Bible? It says that a number no man can number WILL COME OUT OF the tribulation.