3 1/2 or 7 Year Tribulation?

[Yahsway]

There will be a 7 year peace Treaty, the key word here is "peace" But the treaty "peace" will be broken half way thru it hense 3 and one half years. This will be a false peace (no tribulation, but false peace)

Then will be tribulation of the Saints before God returns with His wrath. But those 3 and one half years will be cut short for the elect.

There is not a total of 7 years tribulating (persecuting the saints) there will be false peace and then tribulation.

[Dad Ernie]

There will be a 7 year peace Treaty, the key word here is "peace" But the treaty "peace" will be broken half way thru it hense 3 and one half years. This will be a false peace (no tribulation, but false peace)

Then will be tribulation of the Saints before God returns with His wrath. But those 3 and one half years will be cut short for the elect.

There is not a total of 7 years tribulating (persecuting the saints) there will be false peace and then tribulation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Greetings Yahsway,

It grieves me that you believe this too. The last week of the Daniel 9 "Covenant" is actually the week that Messiah comes and issues in the New Covenant. He spent 3 1/2 years establishing it at which time He was cut off, killed by His own people. Yet there remains a time in the end of days when Israel shall be restored to a state of "righteousness with God", so as to confirm and finalize the Daniel 9 Covenant which was to restore Israel to righteousness with God. Now please give due consideration to the following:

Deut 4:26-31 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. 27 And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. 28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. 29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. 30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; 31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Deut 30:1-5 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, 2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. 4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

Nehemiah 1:8-9 Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, If ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations: 9 But if ye turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though there were of you cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven, yet will I gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there.

Please note that God shall scatter His people among the nations. Currently there are about 16 million Jews in the world of which 5.3 million are in Israel. New York has around 6 million Jews living there to give you a sort of perspective. Of the Jews in Israel and in fact all the world less than 2% of them have come to know their Messiah.

The current "allayah" to Israel is NOT of God, for when that happens, they will beat their swords into plowshares and the Lion shall lay down with the Lamb and there shall be eternal peace. The promise of the return of their land to them will not occur until ALL the saints of God (Jews and Gentiles) are reigning with Christ from Jerusalem.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Keith]

Greetings Pre-tribs,

I continue to rebut this ridiculous notion of a pre-trib rapture, because I was once there and have come to realize the fallacy of it. I feel very sorry for you because you have bought into a lie and you add to and take away from the scriptures in order to justify your paradigm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you trying to avoid post #4? Or just trying to change the subject?

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture. In fact, it has nothing to do with the rapture whatsoever. There's no need to feel sorry for anyone because you believe they have bought into a lie. Especially when you are one that is twisting and bending the scriptures himself, in an attempt to make them fit what you believe. But like I always say, God is not bound by what we believe, no matter how strongly we may believe it.

When you have the correct theory, everyone will know it, because all of the pieces will fit like a glove. There won't be any need of twisting or bending or feeling sorry for those who don't believe what you do. But until that time, there are no experts in this field, no, not even the Great Dad Ernie.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Especially when the entire message board is fully aware of DE's tribulation beliefs, it's unnecessary to attack every person and every post that mentions any beliefs that are different to his. It's condescending, rude and unChristlike.

[Guest hubertdorm]

I'm not with you Dad Ernie, that that Messiah is the one who confirmed the covenant of Daniel 9.

v. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks

Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself...

The Messiah is cut off after the 69th week.

Now, let's assume that Jesus came at the end of the 69th week (as v.25 predicts). He ministers for roughly 3 1/2 years and then is rejected and murdered. This means that of the last "seven," 3 1/2 years were fulfilled by Christ's ministry on earth.

v. 26 And the people of the prince who is to come

Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.The end of it shall be with a flood,

And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

v. 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week...

Chronologically, the covenant is not confirmed until after the sanctuary is destroyed. How is it possible then, that Jesus the Messiah is the one who confirmed the covenant?

[Guest hubertdorm]

Then we take into account Matthew 24

v. 9 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.

v. 15 Therefore when you see the "abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand)...

v. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Jesus teaches that the AoD in Daniel 9 is the beginning of the great tribulation.

Jesus teaches that the AoD was sometime in the future, after his disciples suffered persecution for his name.

I'm gonna stop my post here. I'm looking in several versions because there is something here I'm missing. I fear a great brain freeze coming

[Dad Ernie]

I'm not with you Dad Ernie, that that Messiah is the one who confirmed the covenant of Daniel 9.

Chronologically, the covenant is not confirmed until after the sanctuary is destroyed. How is it possible then, that Jesus the Messiah is the one who confirmed the covenant?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Greetings Hubert Dorm,

You must have missed the several posts in which I quoted the following verses:

Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the NEW COVENANT in my blood, which is shed for you.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the NEW COVENANT; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the NEW COVENANT, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Matthew 23:37-39 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The purpose of the Daniel 9 Covenant was to "restore Israel to righteousness with God". But they killed their Messiah mid-week of the 70th week, thereby leaving 3 1/2 years remaining of the Daniel 9 Covenant for the Jews. Romans 9-11 tells us that when the "fulness of the Gentiles be come in (to the Kingdom of God)" then the fulness of Israel shall come immediately afterwards.

As you can see by the Hebrew vs. above, the Daniel Covenant is incorporated into the New Covenant as far as the Jews are concerned.

Jesus commissioned the Apostles to "go ye unto all the world" long before 70 A.D. thus the Kingdom of God was taken from Israel long before 70 A.D.

Now, I do believe I have posted the many OT verses regarding WHEN the Jews are saved - in times of trouble in the latter days when they remain scattered among the nations.

So what do we find with Revelation? 3 1/2 years mentioned several times that ALL run concurrently and NOT consequitively, as the pre-trib doctrine must insist.

So there is nothing "out of order" time-wise or otherwise.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[wordsower]

Be grieved, Dad, I'm going to ask for some hang-time when I'm on my way up in the pre-trib rapture to say nanynanybooboo.

Hey there RollingTHUNDER!! My computer died but has been raised from the dead, I'M BACK! Missed ya!

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hey there RollingTHUNDER!!  My computer died but has been raised from the dead, I'M BACK!  Missed ya!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I must be dreaming! I see it but I don't know if I can believe it! I was beginning to think we wouldn't see you until we got to the new promised land!

Welcome back Sister! We missed you too!

[refugepsa91]

Hang time.....swoooooosh!!! Sorry couldn't help myself.

Honestly though I am a pre-wrath gal....but I can tell ya one thing...if I'm wrong....yeeeeee ha! I won't mind at all wordsower if ya go neener-neener to me....

Love and Blessings,

Angel

P.S. remember keep it in scripture not in insults

[wordsower]

Don't worry Refuge, Dad knows I love him. Still gonna say told ya so though!

Yeah, Thunder, how'd ya know I didn't get raptured and all yall left behind?

It's great to be back, I missed all of you.

Thunder, how is that book going? My church got it's own record label and I'm on the soloist list. Glory! God is a dream giver and fulfiller. 2005 is our year! You the author and me the singer ---all to the Glory of God, praise His Holy Name!