chat with a catholic

[IreneM]

I think kath has ended the dialog but maybe some one else can answer

When the pope dies will he go to heaven or pergatory and if not heaven how much money will it take to get him out of pergatory - ----- don't know how else to state it

friend dies get letter from catholic church saying I can pay her way out of pergatory shorten her stay so hence the question

In Christ

IreneM

[followerofjesus]

They are required to say penance & are forgiven. As far as paying money you lost me there. They believe in purgatory as a preparation to purity before entering the gates in the sky. There is no answer as far as the pope goes. There is only one judge for that.

[Fiosh]

Hi IreneM,

The "money" part of the question is easy. You CAN NOT buy your way into heaven. Not even if you're a Catholic. There was a time in the history of the Catholic Church (I'm guessing here...in the late 1400's to early 1500's) that "indulgences" were sold by local clergy as a way to make money. This was never sanctioned by the Church or the Pope. Nevertheless it was done, and it was a heinous practice---we admit that.

It was, however, and is, heresy.

The Catholic Church's teaching on Purgatory, from the "Catechism of the Catholic Church":

#1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter heaven.

#1031 The Church gives the name "Purgatory" to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent.

The Catholic Church has NEVER made a statement that any particular person went to hell or to Purgatory. It has pronounced some as "saints" who are in heaven...eg. martyrs

So, bottom line....the Church may say that Pope John Paul II goes to heaven, because he is considered by many to be a living saint. I don't believe anyone would venture to guess whether he went to Purgatory first.

Hope this is helpful.

In His Love,

Fiosh

[Shane]

Hi Irene

I was not going to post initially, but I am convicted to. I dont want to start another ignorant debate, some people do not understand the teachings of the catholic church. To say they believe in justification by faith alone is plainly untrue as I am sure you found in the discussions on this thread.

Paul instructed us many times to hold to good doctrine and truth, not to accept false doctrines of men. And this is what purgatory is , a false doctrine created by man because they did not understand Gods grace.

So yes if you are Catholic you will believe the Pope is going to purgatory but you will believe he is an extremely good man. If he is good enough he will go to heaven and will spend very little time in purgatory for the purification of his soul.

So the blood of Jesus you see does not purify our soul completely, we still have to do some of the suffering ourselves.

I have included a reference to a brief statement by James White which I agree with completely.

http://www.aomin.org/index.php?itemid=317

We either hold to the original gospel of Christ or we believe in a false gospel.

I am sure I will get many negative comments for this post but hey somone has to stand for the truth in this new liberal acceptance of twisted gospels. And No this is not MY truth it is BIBLICAL truth and the very reason for the reformation, and now peole want to accept such perverted doctrined again.

Lord help us for being so liberal and shallow with Your word and you wonderful work on the cross.

Isnt it amazing how not so many years ago people DIED for the truth and now when you stand for the truth you are labeled divisive and unloving???

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

1Ti 1:3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine,

1Ti 4:6 If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed.

1Ti 6:3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,

1Ti 6:4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,

Tit 1:9 He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

And just to note believe me this is not an easy Gospel for me as my family is Catholic and if they do not come to the truth they will be lost. I dont just water that truth down to make myself more comfortable, I accept it and pray about it.

With much love and Sincerity

From a Born again Christian who was Catholic for 30 years.

[Fiosh]

Shane,

I respect your willingness to post your beliefs, even if I don't totally agree.

I am a Catholic. And I am a follower of Christ. For you to assume that all Catholics will perish is a bit misguided.

The doctrine of Purgatory is partly based on books of the Bible that Martin Luther threw out; so it's difficult to explain to a non-Catholic Biblically.

Let me just say this. My beliefs are based on the interpretations of the Bible by the early Fathers of the Church...the men who KNEW the Apostles...and the men who knew them. Men who DIED FOR THEIR FAITH.

[And before you jump on the term "interpretation" ;anything you say beyond an exact quote in Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic is "interpretation".]

Martin Luther and Calvin, etc. came along 1500 years later with their own interpretations, and some people chose to believe them.

We Catholics are so misunderstood. Read James, Chapter 2.

'nuff said.

Sorry, I couldn't stand by and watch a billion people condemned to hell by Shane.

btw: I don't think you're going to hell just because you are NOT Catholic, Shane.

In His Love,

Fiosh

[Shane]

Sorry, I couldn't stand by and watch a billion people condemned to hell by Shane.

btw:  I don't think you're going to hell just because you are NOT Catholic, Shane.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would love to know where you get the idea that I have the power to condemn people to hell?

There is a nice little story posted by Nebula here.

http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...topic=21124&hl=

[Fiosh]

Hi Shane,

RE: "I would love to know where you get the idea that I have the power to condemn people to hell?"

I was referencing this quote:

"And just to note believe me this is not an easy Gospel for me as my family is Catholic and if they do not come to the truth they will be lost. I dont just water that truth down to make myself more comfortable, I accept it and pray about it."

I apologize for my poor choice of words; it's late and I'm ready for some sleep.

I didn't mean to imply that I was attributing any "power" to you.

You state that your family is Catholic, and if they don't come to the truth they are lost. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that you think ALL Catholics are going to hell.

So, I should have said, I couldn't stand by and listen to Shane imply that all Catholics are condemned to hell, without responding.

Again, I apologize for my phrasing.

Hope to meet you in heaven...maybe we can talk some more.

Good night,

Fiosh