Guest Teditis Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, Joline said: Ok, what I see you saying here is....We al receive salvation the same....by his will. The differences are in our walk? Or sanctification, calling, office. ? Or oare thos options off the mark to what you are saying? Well I was speaking to the point of free-will having a place in our salvation process. For some, it may be all God's doing... He plants the seed, waters and causes growth. Others may be that God plants the seed but allows the individual to choose to follow after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Teditis Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: ahhhh, it dawns on me maybe . . . . your first question is exploring the possibility, that a moderator deleted by post! Yeah... the moderator, moderated himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 24, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,316 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,520 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Teditis said: Yeah... the moderator, moderated himself. His memory may be slipping then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATerri Posted May 24, 2016 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 31 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 28 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2016 11 hours ago, CATerri said: This is how I have come to be comfortable with both freewill and predestination at the same time. It is called the uncertainty principle. Light behaves both as a wave and as a particle. If you look at it to see the wave phenomenon, you cannot see the particle phenomenon and when you look at the particle phenomenon, you cannot see the wave phenomenon. Both are true, yet you can't see both of them at the same time. Scripture teaches both freewill and predestination, but when you are trying to prove the one, you have to ignore the other scripture. I am perfectly comfortable with both of them being true at the same time. Doesn't it make sense that it would be more complicated than light? Sorry, I've been trained in Physics, so the uncertainty principle is easy for me to understand, but I forget that when I bring it up, people's eyes glaze over. I think both freewill and predestination are supported by scripture, so both must be true. Our brains don't easily hold on to both ideas at the same time, but I think God is perfectly able to have both be true. 1. GOD CHOOSES ACCORDING TO HIS WILL Eph 1:4-5 - 4 just as he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before him in love. 5 He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will, (NRSV) Romans 9:15-16 - “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God who shows mercy. Ephesians 1:11 - 11 In Christ we have also obtained an inheritance, having been destined according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to his counsel and will, 2. MAN CHOOSING TO BELIEVE Acts 16: 29-31 - 29 The jailer called for lights, and rushing in, he fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 Then he brought them outside and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They answered, “Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” John 3:14-18 - 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. 16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. 17 “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. Acts 10:43 - 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” GOD'S WAYS ARE INSCRUTABLE Romans 11:33 - 33 O the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeavesSeeds Posted May 24, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 187 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 152 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/09/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2016 Remember what God's Word says about all the wrong views - including the straightforward stated: "I am of Paul, I am of Apollos" written in Scripture. They are carnal (is carnal foolish? or worse! ? ) . It's worse today,those saying "I am this, another saying i am that"..... and it's still carnal. 2 hours ago, CATerri said: Am I foolish to think both views can be true at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted May 24, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: In my opinion, yes, Adam had free will like no man since (apart from Jesus) has had! By sinning , God changed Adam's free will ? God created everything perfect , He knew man would be able to know the difference after sinning ,of good and evil but He gave them the ability to disobey and do their own free will > So God predestined Adam to sin and to take His free will away? Is Adam be in heaven because he believed in God? Or did the sin keep him out of heaven? Adam and Eve walked with God , are they are in heaven ? Adam and Eve both had a free will and are most likely in heaven,where if you predestination did change the free will into predestination? I still believe in free will, but I'm trying to think how people believe what they believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted May 24, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Joline said: This is where I am sorely lacking. I do not even see how it is possible to have free will yet limited. I do not yet see a choice between one or the other. So I am not getting some things here obviously. This hurdle for me is causing confusion. So, I am looking forward to seeing an exchange concerning this. Joline I said earlier: In a way that makes sense if you think of Gods foreknowledge of somebody excepting Jesus, that He gave that person already salvation through predestination. God knew if the person would accept His Son,therefore the wording is different. Everybody still has a free will but God knew by foreknowledge the acceptance of that person and therefore you could call it predestination? Does this make sense to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted May 24, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted May 24, 2016 4 hours ago, CATerri said: Sanctified gaseous carbon ? Sanctified = holy gaseous carbon = smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 1 hour ago, angels4u said: Joline I said earlier: In a way that makes sense if you think of Gods foreknowledge of somebody excepting Jesus, that He gave that person already salvation through predestination. God knew if the person would accept His Son,therefore the wording is different. Everybody still has a free will but God knew by foreknowledge the acceptance of that person and therefore you could call it predestination? Does this make sense to you? Yes it does. LOL, then omega comes in with some really good stuff too. I just need to sit back listen and digest. Thanks for this though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted May 24, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted May 24, 2016 5 hours ago, enoob57 said: I can't see what your saying about me because I consider myself rather dumb! I have had, here, people who articulate the same as you have and it frustrates me because I would not be typing it if I did not think it to be of importance yet the sorrow it brings to me to be, as it is here un-effective, to the considerations! Shiloh has stated my writing form is poor and that could be... due to the ignorance I have in punctuation and wording~ it is convoluted to the reader but although my disdain, early in life, for English class my greatest abilities in IQ testing lies in reading comprehension... go figure I noticed the other post you have posted while I was writing that and see it might continue in this direction so will end here and begin there. Love, Steven This (part of the thread) is getting worse, not better. lol Sephen, anyone can see you are anything but dumb! If we are on a serious note here, I will be honest about what I think about some of your posts. Some of them are excellent, and need no improvement whatsoever. What I was referring to, when I mentioned having a hard time understanding them, is that it seems like you are writing under the assumption that other always know what you are referring to. They seem a little disconnected, because they are not always shown in the context, how they fit or relate to whatever you are addressing. I guess I would put it this way, it might be better, if a person could come to you post and read it, and understand it all by itself, if they just came into the thread without reading what has gone on previously. This thread has been very active, and in a few hours, has accumulated many posts, and the breadth of the topic, carries it all over the place, making it difficult for any of us (speaking for myself at least) to follow at times. I probably have failed to say here, what I am trying to say, that would be my fault. If I see another post of yours crop up, that is a good example of what I meant, I might try to positively critique it, but . . . be encouraged, most of your posts are good, and positive contributions to topics when you are serious (I am less enthustiastic about Hop Sing, Pedro, and that hideous version of Charlie Brown, but most of those are kept in the weird threads where it does not matter). It appears to me, that perhaps at times, you are posting in a hurry, and the posts suffer a little for it, but generally, they are pretty good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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