Revelation Man Posted June 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,094 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 561 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, OakWood said: When you say that the second coming comes after the rapture you really mean the third coming don't you, seeing as Jesus has to come (with a shout) to collect the elect to be raptured. Let's just hope that nobody hears that shout otherwise people might think that Jesus is returning! No, the Rapture is Not Jesus coming back to earth, to land on Mount Zion, and destroy the wicked. People get so nuanced on minute details that sometimes we miss the bigger picture, imho, Rev. 19 is what caused me to understand the truth of when the Rapture is, to be honest, I never really wondered about it that much until the Holy Spirit revealed it to me. It just hit me, all of those scriptures about post trib can be countered with sound logic. Rev. 19 can not happen, without the post tribbers logic being questioned, Jesus Comes/calls us and we have to go to heaven for a Marriage but we come back as soon as he comes. It just doesn't add up. Rev. 19 proves there has to be a calling up, us going to Heaven (unless we travel there alone (smile) then a return to earth with Jesus, the only question is do we travel to earth for a minute, a day etc. etc. or 7 Years. I don't get why the thought is anything but 7 years, and if its only a few minutes or a day, then that would be still THREE COMINGS.....Would it not ? So to speak. As per the Post Tribbers main scriptures, all can be reasoned away. We do return with Jesus (Rev 19) Immediately after the Tribulation, we do see the Man of Sin before the Second Coming, but we Saints will come back with Jesus. The Saints are overcome by the Beast, but these are Saints who become Christians after the Rapture. These are all logically reasoned away. No logic can reason away Rev. 19, we Saints come back FROM HEAVEN, with Jesus, not from the air. God Bless Edited June 12, 2016 by Revelation Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted June 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, Revelation Man said: No, the Rapture is Not Jesus coming back to earth, to land on Mount Zion, and destroy the wicked. People get so nuanced on minute details that sometimes we miss the bigger picture, imho,. Rev. 19 is what caused me to understand the truth of when the Rapture is, to be honest, I never really wondered about it that much until the Holy Spirit revealed it to me. It just hit me, all of those scriptures about post trib can be countered with sound logic. Rev. 19 can not happen, without the post tribbers logic being questioned, Jesus Comes/calls us and we have to go to heaven for a Marriage but we come back as soon as he comes. It just doesn't add up. Rev. 19 proves there has to be a calling up, us going to Heaven (unless we travel there alone (smile) then a return to earth with Jesus, the only question is to we travel to earth for a minute, a day etc. etc or 7 Years. I don't get why the thought is anything but 7 years, and if its only a few minutes or a day, then that would be THREE COMINGS.....Would it not ? As per the Post Tribbers main scriptures, all can be reasoned away. We do return with Jesus (Rev 19) Immediately after the Tribulation, we do see the Man of Sin before the Second Coming, but we Saints will come back with Jesus. The Saints are overcome by the Beast, but these are Saints who become Christians after the Rapture. These are all logically reasoned away. No logic can reason away Rev. 19, we Saints come back FROM HEAVEN, with Jesus, not from the air. God Bless Rev 19 can happen without a pre-Trib rapture. It merely describes what happens the antiChrist and the Beast are finally forced to battle with Jesus after the saints are raptured to be with Christ AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION, or do you believe that the anti-Christ and Beast are destroyed before the Tribulation? Which frankly makes no sense at all. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the post-Trib is true because the replies that I am getting from pre-Tribbers are either regurgitation of the same stuff I have heard before or an emphasis on things that can equally apply to post-Trib and pre-Trib but with a pre-Trib spin put on to it. Before I started this thread I prayed to God that he would not let me be deceived, and my initial ten reservations still remain. There has to be three comings of Christ for the pre-Trib to be true, and Jesus comes with a shout....... so there's no secret rapture or anything. Yet no matter how many times I point this out, I am told that this so-called second coming (the alleged pre-Trib rapture) is not a coming at all. I've never experienced such blindness here on the Worthy forum. A coming is a coming.... even if you refuse to call it that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted June 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, Revelation Man said: No, the Rapture is Not Jesus coming back to earth, to land on Mount Zion, and destroy the wicked. People get so nuanced on minute details that sometimes we miss the bigger picture, imho,. Rev. 19 is what caused me to understand the truth of when the Rapture is, to be honest, I never really wondered about it that much until the Holy Spirit revealed it to me. It just hit me, all of those scriptures about post trib can be countered with sound logic. Rev. 19 can not happen, without the post tribbers logic being questioned, Jesus Comes/calls us and we have to go to heaven for a Marriage but we come back as soon as he comes. It just doesn't add up. Rev. 19 proves there has to be a calling up, us going to Heaven (unless we travel there alone (smile) then a return to earth with Jesus, the only question is to we travel to earth for a minute, a day etc. etc or 7 Years. I don't get why the thought is anything but 7 years, and if its only a few minutes or a day, then that would be THREE COMINGS.....Would it not ? As per the Post Tribbers main scriptures, all can be reasoned away. We do return with Jesus (Rev 19) Immediately after the Tribulation, we do see the Man of Sin before the Second Coming, but we Saints will come back with Jesus. The Saints are overcome by the Beast, but these are Saints who become Christians after the Rapture. These are all logically reasoned away. No logic can reason away Rev. 19, we Saints come back FROM HEAVEN, with Jesus, not from the air. God Bless Rev 19 can happen without a pre-Trib rapture. It merely describes what happens the antiChrist and the Beast are finally forced to battle with Jesus after the saints are raptured to be with Christ AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION, or do you believe that the anti-Christ and Beast are destroyed before the Tribulation? Which frankly makes no sense at all. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the post-Trib is true because the replies that I am getting from pre-Tribbers are either regurgitation of the same stuff I have heard before or an emphasis on things that can equally apply to post-Trib and pre-Trib but with a pre-Trib spin put on to it. Before I started this thread I prayed to God that he would not let me be deceived, and my initial ten reservations still remain. There has to be three comings of Christ for the pre-Trib to be true, and Jesus comes with a shout....... so there's no secret rapture or anything. Yet no matter how many times I point this out, I am told that this so-called second coming (the alleged pre-Trib rapture) is not a coming at all. I've never experienced such blindness here on the Worthy forum. A coming is a coming.... even if you refuse to call it that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted June 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,094 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 561 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2016 36 minutes ago, OakWood said: Rev 19 can happen without a pre-Trib rapture. It merely describes what happens the antiChrist and the Beast are finally forced to battle with Jesus after the saints are raptured to be with Christ AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION, or do you believe that the anti-Christ and Beast are destroyed before the Tribulation? Which frankly makes no sense at all. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the post-Trib is true because the replies that I am getting from pre-Tribbers are either regurgitation of the same stuff I have heard before or an emphasis on things that can equally apply to post-Trib and pre-Trib but with a pre-Trib spin put on to it. Before I started this thread I prayed to God that he would not let me be deceived, and my initial ten reservations still remain. There has to be three comings of Christ for the pre-Trib to be true, and Jesus comes with a shout....... so there's no secret rapture or anything. Yet no matter how many times I point this out, I am told that this so-called second coming (the alleged pre-Trib rapture) is not a coming at all. I've never experienced such blindness here on the Worthy forum. A coming is a coming.... even if you refuse to call it that! Whether you or I have heard something before or not has no relevance to it being fiction, or truth. You have totally missed the point I made above. You are saying a main reasoning of your decision is because by using pre-tribbers logic, there has to be three comings. Then I showed how no matter which you believe, according to what you guys call three coming, there HAS TO BE THREE COMINGS, by your own admission. Lets take this step by step to bring this to light. 1. We are called to Heaven for 7 years, then we come back with Jesus. That is, according to your thinking "three comings". 2. Now, you believe in post-trib, or may be very close to believing in it. According to Revelation 19, even by Post-Trib Logic, according to your belief in "Three Comings" you still have to have THREE COMINGS................If we are in Heaven, then come back with Jesus to defeat the Beast, even if it happens after the Tribulation, isn't that still three comings ? So your main reasoning, is true for both pre-trib and post-trib, that's the point I was making. I do not think a coming to the air and calling us to Heaven is a coming, but you do, so by your own definition there will still be three comings. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENOCH2010 Posted June 13, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 907 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1866 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Where in the Bible does it say the saints will go to heaven and stay 7 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted June 13, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 6 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said: Where in the Bible does it say the saints will go to heaven and stay 7 years? It doesn't... plain and simple... it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted June 13, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 8 hours ago, Revelation Man said: Whether you or I have heard something before or not has no relevance to it being fiction, or truth. You have totally missed the point I made above. You are saying a main reasoning of your decision is because by using pre-tribbers logic, there has to be three comings. Then I showed how no matter which you believe, according to what you guys call three coming, there HAS TO BE THREE COMINGS, by your own admission. Lets take this step by step to bring this to light. 1. We are called to Heaven for 7 years, then we come back with Jesus. That is, according to your thinking "three comings". 2. Now, you believe in post-trib, or may be very close to believing in it. According to Revelation 19, even by Post-Trib Logic, according to your belief in "Three Comings" you still have to have THREE COMINGS................If we are in Heaven, then come back with Jesus to defeat the Beast, even if it happens after the Tribulation, isn't that still three comings ? So your main reasoning, is true for both pre-trib and post-trib, that's the point I was making. I do not think a coming to the air and calling us to Heaven is a coming, but you do, so by your own definition there will still be three comings. God Bless No, it's not three comings. Jesus returning and rapturing us while he returns is not three comings of Jesus. Jesus came two thousand years ago. He hasn't returned since. When he returns he will rapture us and we will be lifted up to him and then Jesus will fight the antiChrist. Unless there is something seriously wrong with my basic arithmetic that is a second coming. However according to pre-Trib theory Jesus comes down takes us up with him with a shout and the shout announces his coming (second coming), then he disappears for a bit (and does nothing to judge - or interact with the World, just makes a flying stop to pick us up) while the World merrily carries on with the Tribulation- and then Jesus comes back later to fight Satan. I make that two comings... plus the original coming two thousand years ago.... makes that three! Why are you insisting that the post-Trib also counts three comings when it doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted June 13, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,094 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 561 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2016 4 hours ago, OakWood said: No, it's not three comings. Jesus returning and rapturing us while he returns is not three comings of Jesus. Jesus came two thousand years ago. He hasn't returned since. When he returns he will rapture us and we will be lifted up to him and then Jesus will fight the antiChrist. Unless there is something seriously wrong with my basic arithmetic that is a second coming. However according to pre-Trib theory Jesus comes down takes us up with him with a shout and the shout announces his coming (second coming), then he disappears for a bit (and does nothing to judge - or interact with the World, just makes a flying stop to pick us up) while the World merrily carries on with the Tribulation- and then Jesus comes back later to fight Satan. I make that two comings... plus the original coming two thousand years ago.... makes that three! Why are you insisting that the post-Trib also counts three comings when it doesn't? You are saying that pre-tribbers ideas mean three comings. I am pointing out that by your own post trib belief, there would have to also be three comings, you just do not realize it. Rev. 19, there was MUCH PEOPLE IN HEAVEN, we marry the Lamb, we ride white horses back from heaven with Jesus, and the BEAST IS STILL ON EARTH. Now if Jesus came and got us, whether it was pre, mid or post, WE STILL WENT BACK TO HEAVEN, before we returned to fight the BEAST......How is a pre trb rapture any more THREE COMINGS than your post trib belief ? I am just astounded you can't see that point. Rev 19 means we are taken to heaven before the "SECOND COMING" Irregardless of when the rapture is. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted June 13, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,094 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 561 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2016 11 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said: Where in the Bible does it say the saints will go to heaven and stay 7 years? I got a challenge for you, go find anywhere in the bible where Jesus' Return is called the "Second Coming". I can't find one place in all the bible. All the scriptures about Jesus return never say "Second Coming". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 12 minutes ago, Revelation Man said: I got a challenge for you, go find anywhere in the bible where Jesus' Return is called the "Second Coming". I can't find one place in all the bible. All the scriptures about Jesus return never say "Second Coming". Yeah, that's really making something out of nothing. The Bible never calls a man's father's father "grandfather" but we know there were grandfathers in the Bible. We use the term "second coming" in modern parlance, but so what? That doesn't contradict the Bible, nor does it do any kind of violence to any doctrine of Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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