Only for those with eyes to see and ears to hear

[ZacharyB]

 

IMO, these points reconcile the NT Scriptures for and against OSAS.

If you would like to see Scriptural proof for anything, please just ask.

 

Cannot unbold this ... so, it's presented in bold ...

 

• God’s simple invitation to believe the gospel (e.g. John 3:16) is

how He begins to rescue some fishes out of the sea of humanity.

Later, they find out what’s involved and what’s required of them.

They should learn their ticket to heaven is not a free pass to sin!

 

• Those who do believe were given a seed of faith by God,

which was absolutely necessary for them to be able to believe.

 

• God’s free gift of grace is … #1 that is possible for a human

being to be saved and spend eternity with God in heaven!

God’s free gift of grace through faith in Jesus and His gospel

is not guaranteed to last a lifetime, i.e. it can be thrown away,

walked away from, drawn back from, etc. … God’s grace is

not about giving His people a free pass to sin!

 

• The true believer is positionally sanctified (set apart) to be

worked on by God the Holy Spirit (progressively sanctified).

Throughout the Scriptures, it’s all about repentance for sin,

which leads to God’s forgiveness.

 

• Upon initial salvation, God completely forgives all past sins,

but this does not cover future sins (which must be dealt with).

What is more ridiculous than people repenting of their sins

one time! … and then not having to repent of any future sins?

Unbelievers go to hell because they are habitual sinners, but

some believers go to heaven while doing the same thing?

 

• Ultimately, man has free will to refuse to co-operate to be

fully sanctified. Simply stated, born-again believers have no

excuse for not overcoming their sins, especially since there

are dozens of warnings about being habitual sinners, and

the Holy Spirit has been trying to convince them to stop this!

Jesus repeatedly said the one who loves Him will obey Him.

Practicing righteousness makes one righteous in God’s eyes.

 

• God’s new covenant with man is much superior to His old

covenant since He has given the true born-again believer:

1 -- a new nature, wherein he no longer is a slave to sin

2 -- the precious Helper, the Holy Spirit, who dwells within

3 -- all of the God-breathed Scriptures in the Holy Bible

This trinity of blessings gives the NT believer a tremendous

advantage over the OT believer who only had God’s prophets.

 

• In all of God’s dealings with man, He has insisted on man’s

co-operation … this salvation thing is a process wherein

God the Holy Spirit leads, guides, and teaches the believer.

 

• All throughout the Bible, one of God’s major themes is:

sin results in eternal death. And it is obvious throughout

Scripture that disobedience is not tolerated by God.

Plus … the NT states that disobedience proves unbelief.

And we know that unbelief also results in eternal death.

Therefore, as you can see, there is no such thing as OSAS.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Quote

 

• In all of God’s dealings with man, He has insisted on man’s

co-operation … this salvation thing is a process wherein

God the Holy Spirit leads, guides, and teaches the believer.

 

Salvation is God's work, and God's alone.   Man has no part in engineering his salvation.   God and God alone saves through faith in Jesus.  Eph. 2:8-9 makes it clear that we have nothing to offer where salvation is concerned.

 

Our cooperation with God is never in salvific matters.  

 

Quote

 

• All throughout the Bible, one of God’s major themes is:

sin results in eternal death. And it is obvious throughout

Scripture that disobedience is not tolerated by God.

Plus … the NT states that disobedience proves unbelief.

And we know that unbelief also results in eternal death.

Therefore, as you can see, there is no such thing as OSAS.

 

Yes, and that is why Jesus died on the cross.  He bore our death.   He died so we would not have to and He died so that we could have eternal salvation.  

Man is born separated from God.   Jesus' death paid the penalty of the curse that hung over the corporate head of humanity and so it is up to each person to accept His free offer of salvation.

Jesus has already borne and paid for everything that it takes to send a person to hell.  Hell is the unfortunate consequence of choosing to remain in continued separation from God.

[ZacharyB]

I understand your position, but here's mine:

Whether or not OSAS is true ...

God has called me to point out the many NT passages

which WARN: Salvation can be lost.

So, is God bluffing, exaggerating, or lying? ... You choose.

Edited June 18, 2016 by ZacharyB

[Jayne]

3 hours ago, ZacharyB said:

I understand your position, but here's mine:

Whether or not OSAS is true ...

God has called me to point out the many NT passages

which WARN: Salvation can be lost.

So, is God bluffing, exaggerating, or lying? ... You choose.

Zachary, I don't think you understand anyone else's position at all.

Here's the thing on the internet when someone comes along and says things like "God has called me to ... [correct all you people who are wrong]".   Usually, in my experience, those people are so convinced that they are right and that they have the ONLY truth that they confuse their opinions and interpretations with God's thoughts and words.

And, they end up saying things like, "So, is God bluffing, exaggerating, or lying?  You choose."  Implying that to disagree with their ideas and scriptural interpretations is to call GOD, HIMSELF a liar.

A wee bit arrogant, no?

God does not bluff, he does not exaggerate, and he cannot lie.

But, people, Zachary - people can be dead wrong in their assertions.  And all the while believe that God is telling them what to say when God has done no such thing.

I won't argue with you about your works-based belief.  I've argued those points with too many people for too long.  And no one ever "changes teams".

Just know that your attaching your beliefs with the voice of God adds no credibility to what you say.

 

Edited June 18, 2016 by Jayne

[SIC]

On 6/17/2016 at 7:10 PM, ZacharyB said:

 

IMO, these points reconcile the NT Scriptures for and against OSAS.

If you would like to see Scriptural proof for anything, please just ask.

 

Cannot unbold this ... so, it's presented in bold ...

 

• God’s simple invitation to believe the gospel (e.g. John 3:16) is

how He begins to rescue some fishes out of the sea of humanity.

Later, they find out what’s involved and what’s required of them.

They should learn their ticket to heaven is not a free pass to sin!

 

• Those who do believe were given a seed of faith by God,

which was absolutely necessary for them to be able to believe.

 

• God’s free gift of grace is … #1 that is possible for a human

being to be saved and spend eternity with God in heaven!

God’s free gift of grace through faith in Jesus and His gospel

is not guaranteed to last a lifetime, i.e. it can be thrown away,

walked away from, drawn back from, etc. … God’s grace is

not about giving His people a free pass to sin!

 

• The true believer is positionally sanctified (set apart) to be

worked on by God the Holy Spirit (progressively sanctified).

Throughout the Scriptures, it’s all about repentance for sin,

which leads to God’s forgiveness.

 

• Upon initial salvation, God completely forgives all past sins,

but this does not cover future sins (which must be dealt with).

What is more ridiculous than people repenting of their sins

one time! … and then not having to repent of any future sins?

Unbelievers go to hell because they are habitual sinners, but

some believers go to heaven while doing the same thing?

 

• Ultimately, man has free will to refuse to co-operate to be

fully sanctified. Simply stated, born-again believers have no

excuse for not overcoming their sins, especially since there

are dozens of warnings about being habitual sinners, and

the Holy Spirit has been trying to convince them to stop this!

Jesus repeatedly said the one who loves Him will obey Him.

Practicing righteousness makes one righteous in God’s eyes.

 

• God’s new covenant with man is much superior to His old

covenant since He has given the true born-again believer:

1 -- a new nature, wherein he no longer is a slave to sin

2 -- the precious Helper, the Holy Spirit, who dwells within

3 -- all of the God-breathed Scriptures in the Holy Bible

This trinity of blessings gives the NT believer a tremendous

advantage over the OT believer who only had God’s prophets.

 

• In all of God’s dealings with man, He has insisted on man’s

co-operation … this salvation thing is a process wherein

God the Holy Spirit leads, guides, and teaches the believer.

 

• All throughout the Bible, one of God’s major themes is:

sin results in eternal death. And it is obvious throughout

Scripture that disobedience is not tolerated by God.

Plus … the NT states that disobedience proves unbelief.

And we know that unbelief also results in eternal death.

Therefore, as you can see, there is no such thing as OSAS.

Agree with you a 100%. If OSAS is true then why go to church? 

[post]

On 6/17/2016 at 9:40 AM, ZacharyB said:

In all of God’s dealings with man, He has insisted on man’s

co-operation …

is that right? 


But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Romans 4:5) 

If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
(2 Timothy 2:13) 


in Genesis 15, a description is given of an ancient way of confirming a covenant, contract or agreement - Abraham prepared some animals, divided them in two, and then laid them out on the ground. the normal practice was for the two parties to the contract to both walk between the pieces of the animals ((i'm told)). 
however the Lord confirmed the covenant with Abraham while Abraham was asleep. Abraham played no role in this covenant, but to believe God. satisfaction of the terms of the agreement was not contingent on Abraham, but on God alone. 
Zach, your blood wasn't spilled on the heavenly altar. you didn't atone for your sin - all of it - He did these things. 

my faith is not in my own faithfulness, but in God's faithfulness towards me. this is how we can say, we have peace with God, gratitude, and joy - because what we can never do, He has done for us - and we "endure to the end" by remaining steadfast in this hope, not setting aside the faith and trust in the finished work of Christ by which we were declared holy, sanctified forever and saved, by grace, apart from works. 

So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
(Romans 9:16) 

if it only depends on His mercy, not on my will, not on my effort -- what, does His mercy fail? 

what can separate me from His love? 
oh yeah -- NOTHING !! 

[ZacharyB]

20 hours ago, Jayne said:

 

Just know that your attaching your beliefs with the voice of God adds no credibility to what you say.

 

Yes, it's all about eyes and ears!

Do you believe God talks to believers?

He definitely told me to go to a country in Eastern Europe and evangelize, etc.

(over 15 years) with several confirmations from Christian leaders.

I also believe He has led me to emphasize the dire warnings in the NT to Christian forums.

Either you have eyes and ears, or you don't have.

Kapishe?

[ZacharyB]

Post ...

Evidently, you haven't read all of those passages where God tells believers to CHOOSE.

CHOOSE life, or death.

CHOOSE to be slaves to sin, or slaves to obedience-righteousness-God.

The NT teaches us that true saving faith leads one to obedience,

which you probably consider to be works!

But, obedience is considered to be a natural result of true belief-faith.

So, when you read "believe", remember that word includes faith-trust-obedience.

E.G. Several times, Jesus says, "If you love Me, obey My commands."

Does anyone get to heaven who does not love Jesus?

And thus, obey His commands?

So again, is God bluffing, exaggerating, or lying? ... You choose.

Edited June 19, 2016 by ZacharyB

[post]

20 hours ago, SIC said:

Agree with you a 100%. If OSAS is true then why go to church? 

the same Spirit by which we are no longer under the law of sin & death and the same Spirit that gives us assurance of our salvation and inheritance in Christ and the same Spirit by which we have a firm, secure hope that is an anchor for the soul is the same Spirit that transforms us into a new creation who does not continue in sin. 

have a look here, please: 

But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) 
By no means! For then how could God judge the world? But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? And why not do evil that good may come? — as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
(Romans 3:5-8) 

the first preachers of the actual gospel, which is a gospel of the free gift of grace, were also erroneously charged and mischaracterized as preaching licentiousness because they have freedom from the wages of sin and complete confidence that the Author and Finisher of their faith is able to complete the work began in them and is faithful even when they are faithless to keep that which they have against Him until that day. 
the false charges against the gospel of grace are nothing new. 
the assurance of salvation is nothing new. 

what these accusers fail to understand is that the very same reason that we have no doubt that we have received the gift and promise of God, eternal life with Him and in Him, is exactly the same reason that we cannot continue in wicked behavior, and are out of love and a sincere heart irrevocably impelled toward every good work. 
we are neither saved by good works nor preserved by them, but by faith. the same God that is faithful to keep us is faithful to regenerate us. 

that we should go on living however we please because we know we have been forgiven? that condemnation is just. 
but it is false condemnation - the same apostle who wrote that this condemnation against those who are in Christ also wrote that those in Christ are now no more under any condemnation. 


 

[post]

that we should be encouraged toward every good work, and constantly reminded of this? 
AMEN ! 

that you should destroy faith and hope in order to make this point, as though God Himself who has promised to redeem us and keep us is unfaithful? 
a resounding 'Bronx cheer' !