woundeddog Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Just now, Kan said: Pray for him. yes-- much prayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 5 hours ago, Kan said: The condition of sin does not separate from God does it? I would think the commital of sin does. I am reminded of the African Americans who were jailed because they lived in a bad neighborhood. True justice can only condemn a voluntary act of sin. Yes, you are born in the condition of sin, a condition of being spiritually dead and separated from God. That is your default condition from birth. The sins you commit are a symptom of that condition, not the cause of it. If nothing happens to change that condition, you will go to hell upon your death. The only remedy for that condition is accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. That is what it means to be a new Creation. There has been a transformation of heart to serve and love the Lord in a way you could do in your previous condition. You from being spiritually dead to being eternally alive. Total change from the old condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2016 10 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Yes, you are born in the condition of sin, a condition of being spiritually dead and separated from God. That is your default condition from birth. The sins you commit are a symptom of that condition, not the cause of it. If nothing happens to change that condition, you will go to hell upon your death. The only remedy for that condition is accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. That is what it means to be a new Creation. There has been a transformation of heart to serve and love the Lord in a way you could do in your previous condition. You from being spiritually dead to being eternally alive. Total change from the old condition. If human beings are born with such an impossible condition, then God has made a provision and an antidote for it, at the cost of His own Son for the world, a gift which is given to every child, through the gift of faith. Now whether that faith ends up connecting the sinner personally with Christ or not, the sinner is not condemned, but the sinner is judged according to what was done with that gift of the conscience. And in all fairness, the expectation and judgement of God looks at the circumstances and opportunities of each individual. I do not conclude that one is lost for a condition they could not help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, Kan said: If human beings are born with such an impossible condition, then God has made a provision and an antidote for it, at the cost of His own Son for the world, a gift which is given to every child, through the gift of faith. Now whether that faith ends up connecting the sinner personally with Christ or not, the sinner is not condemned, but the sinner is judged according to what was done with that gift of the conscience. And in all fairness, the expectation and judgement of God looks at the circumstances and opportunities of each individual. I do not conclude that one is lost for a condition they could not help. Romans tells us "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". I think that's specific enough right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Kan said: If human beings are born with such an impossible condition, then God has made a provision and an antidote for it, at the cost of His own Son for the world, a gift which is given to every child, through the gift of faith. Now whether that faith ends up connecting the sinner personally with Christ or not, the sinner is not condemned, but the sinner is judged according to what was done with that gift of the conscience. And in all fairness, the expectation and judgement of God looks at the circumstances and opportunities of each individual. I do not conclude that one is lost for a condition they could not help. The gift of eternal life is available to all who receive it. It is not given to everyone automatically. It must be received. The sinner IS condemned without Christ. Paul makes it clear in Romans 1 that everyone is without excuse because the knowledge of God is embedded in creation and that creation will lead a person to seek God, but man in his wickedness refuses to seek God. If a person seeks God, God will make himself and his salvation known. God would have been just and fair if he never provided a way of salvation for mankind. We don't deserve salvation. We don't deserve the opportunity. It was only His mercy that made it possible. So regardless of what one's opportunity is, it is not wrong or unfair if that that person ends up in Hell. God is just and he will deal with each person in accordance with his righteous character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2016 I do not believe that a child without Christ is lost, but that the child belongs to God by default. Otherwise God had no excuse for annihilating the heathen nations which sacrificed their children. They would have been killing their own, which were otherwise condemned to being burned alive for eternity anyway, according to the doctrines that you currently entertain. The words and actions of Christ towards children is the attitude of God for all the lost, especially children who have not hardened their hearts against the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, RobertS said: Romans tells us "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". I think that's specific enough right there. No child is guilty of sin until they make such a decision. "For all have sinned" is not referring to infants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2016 Blessings Zach,,,,, I dunno,I think that there are very few folks that are really "listening" to what you are saying,I don't see you talking about "works" or about ner again sinning in your life once you are Saved,,,,,,I'm sorry those assumptions are made when you discuss these Topics..... I agree,your "sin list" is a pretty good way to "know THEM by their fruits",,,,,,,We stand on the Position of Victory,afforded by us(Born Again Spirit Filled Believers) Yes,we ARE Overcomers! We have every opportunity in the universe,given all the implements & tools to not sin,,,,,,& it is a choice,the choice we make is to serve God because we love Him and because of that love we do not WANT to sin,will we? Sure but not willfully To willfully sin is to deliberately rebel against God,a person who loves God can easily become distracted by the world if they are not seeking God & this can lead a person into temptation which they can choose to act on or not act on,,,,,,,so they fall into sin,does that send them to hell? No it does not,,,,,continuing in sin ,by choice ,,,,,is rejecting God,,,,,that person is in grave danger if his heart is unrepentant,,,,,,,, And yes,Zach,,,,,,it does go back to the OSAS or not,doesn't it?lol Well,I'm not willing to gamble my Eternal Salvation so I will just stay near God,keep my eyes on Jesus & stay dependent on Him so I never waiver Glory to God! With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,657 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2016 I have known people who were told all their lives by their parents that they are no good and will never amount to anything. Some of them fell into addictions long before they were saved and while most things fell off easily after receiving Christ, they continued to battle with the addiction and could not overcome it no matter how much they asked for God's help. It was't till decades years later after a compassionate pastor befriended one of these and discipled, holding accountable, that they were able to overcome. At times during those 30 years they were so discouraged they nearly gave up. They were often angry at themselves and couldn't accept that God had really forgiven because they were unable to quit. Now a lot of other things are being healed, such as trusting Christians and pastors and overcoming anger problems, since self anger is gone. So I have to agree that sinners need compassion and encouragement, discipling and someone to come along side them like the Holy Spirit does. He is our advocate who comes along side us and helps us. A friend closer than a brother. But people sometimes need to be reminded of Scriptures and guided in how to recognize God's voice so they can walk in the Spirit. Some people get this early on. Others are overlooked and struggle. It is good to be in a church where sinners feel it is safe to ask for help. It is a place where they are not condemned but are welcomed and set free. Most people are saved when they are teens the statistics say. But people of all ages are saved in our church, and may of them are over 50. For some reason over the years I have been drawn to reach out to many of these people who seem to be "on the edge" of the church. Several of them went on to serve God and became life long friends. Some were on the edges of the body by choice. They were fence sitters. Two were compulsive liars and were labeled sociopaths. God has protected me and I have been under my husband's guidance through it all. Many of them had been abused and rejected as kids. So being in a church with a jail ministry and which reaches out to alcoholics and even homeless people is a good place to be. I haven't been in their shoes, but God has given me compassion for them. There but for the grace of God, go I. Sometimes in the reality of ministry, we need to forget about doctrines and just practice the law of love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2016 Blessings Willa Quote Sometimes in the reality of ministry, we need to forget about doctrines and just practice the law of love. Amen Sister!!! Plus we must love them enough to speak Gods Truth and not simply pat them on the head,,,,,,,,,that is right Sis,I've know people who were Saved & 30,40 years later they still stumbled around blindly ,not understanding bondage or the enemy,it is partly due to others but not solely A little patience,kindness and love goes a long long way To God be ALL the Glory! With love-in Christ,Kwik Sis,I believe the spirit of pride is very insidious,how many Christians do we know that are in denial of the fact that a Born Again Christian can be bound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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