Your closest friendnt Posted July 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,870 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,764 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, DARRELX said: To be a Catholic you have to believe in the authority of the pope, in the rosery and prayer to countless saint's. In the veneration of Mary and saints. In confession. In the last rites. In the power of a priest to forgive sin and not in scripture as being the sole authority of the Church. All these things are man made commandments and Jesus said... Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. It amazing that you don't want to mention that when you walk in any Catholic Church you will see the story of Jesus Christ on the station of the Cross, and that every year they are celebrating the death and the resuraction of Jesus Christ, with fastins and devotions. Reciting the events from the Gospels. The call Jesus Savior and Lord of Lords. Sitted on the Throne in the Heavens, and been the Judge of all. .......... Their misunderstanding, and other things in their culture which we do not approve can not invalidate their faith in Jesus Christ the Savior of the word. I am been polite and I do not use strong words. But the truth it is, that no one can stand in front of the Judgement sit of Jesus Christ, and ask the Lord not to value their faith in him above all other things, and reject them and their faith in him, and judge them as his Children, but sent them to Hell, because of what, they have obey God and believe in his Son Jesus who die for us, but at the same time obey the scriptures that say be obedient to your leaders. And that what they do believing that God has put them their, and why he does not remove them if...... PS The scripture you posted may have a message for us today, but If you look very carefully at the words Jesus use, he said, they worship me, and he was talking to the Jews, who were worshiping the Lord God the Creator of all, identifying him self as the one who created Adam in the Garden, and now has found himself in the form of the man he had first created in the Garden. But you can not say that the Catholics today are in the same position as the Jewish people, for they are worshiping Jesus Christ as the Savior of the word, the Son of God who took away the sins of the word. The position of the Jews that time it is different, for they did not recognize that Jesus was their Lord God, who had come in the flesh to be the Christ, the Son of Man, the second Adam, who been in the form of man, like the first Adam did not have an earthly father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted July 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) Catholics say they worship Jesus, yet they worship the Pope, pray to the dead, worship Mary, and believe everything the Pope, priests and bishops tell them is the truth and the way to salvation. They even believe a priest, a mere man has the divine power to call Jesus Christ down from His throne in Heaven, and make a morsel of bread Christs actual body, to be literally eaten? And confession, A mere priest, a man forgiving sins? another lie. Wow, I once did also, thank God he pulled me out of that! Edited July 12, 2016 by HAZARD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,870 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,764 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2016 I have many friends and relatives who have decided to leave the Catholic Church not because they were lost and going to Hell, not because of that, but wanted to be associated with another Christian culture that is base on apostolic guidance. And where Jesus is the focus of the worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARRELX Posted July 12, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 132 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/26/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2016 51 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: But you can not say that the Catholics today are in the same position as the Jewish people, for they are worshiping Jesus Christ as the Savior of the word, the Son of God who took away the sins of the word. Judging by your reply I doubt whether it will do much good to answer you but I will from scripture at any rate. The Catholic church is much like the Jews of Jesus day. Those Jews had invented many traditions that were held as sacred as scripture and those traditions became more important than scripture. The Catholic church has done that very same thing. Catholic tradition superseds scripture. You seem to think that a person can believe any old superstition or traditions or idolatries invented by man as long as they believe in Jesus. I disagree and will show you from scripture why. 1 John 5:16,21 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it... Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. John says that believing in idols is a sin that leads to death. The Catholics venerate many idols, Mary being one of them. All Catholics believe in Mary's intercession and mediation for all mankind. They have turned Mary into an idol. 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. The temple being our body yet Catholics agree with idolatry and there cannot be an agreement between a Christian and idolatry. Why, because following idols leads to false doctrine such as believing that Mary has power and authority in heaven. 1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God. Here we see that Christianity is about turning away from idols not turning to them as all Catholics do. 1 Corinthians 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. In scripture we see where false doctrine comes from. 1 Timothy 4:1-3 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry. Priests and nuns are forbidden to marry which is just one of the many doctrines of demons the Catholic church has instituted. So the church is run by seducing spirits and demons not the Holy Spirit who will guide the Elect into all truth. John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth. That brings me back to my first objection and that is if some one has the Holy Spirit they cannot continue in the Catholic tradition. Sure I do not doubt that some in the Catholic Church are saved but they will leave the Catholic Church as a result like Martin Luther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 12, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,870 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,764 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2016 X 10 hours ago, DARRELX said: Judging by your reply I doubt whether it will do much good to answer you but I will from scripture at any rate. The Catholic church is much like the Jews of Jesus day. Those Jews had invented many traditions that were held as sacred as scripture and those traditions became more important than scripture. The Catholic church has done that very same thing. Catholic tradition superseds scripture. You seem to think that a person can believe any old superstition or traditions or idolatries invented by man as long as they believe in Jesus. I disagree and will show you from scripture why. 1 John 5:16,21 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it... Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. John says that believing in idols is a sin that leads to death. The Catholics venerate many idols, Mary being one of them. All Catholics believe in Mary's intercession and mediation for all mankind. They have turned Mary into an idol. 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. The temple being our body yet Catholics agree with idolatry and there cannot be an agreement between a Christian and idolatry. Why, because following idols leads to false doctrine such as believing that Mary has power and authority in heaven. 1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God. Here we see that Christianity is about turning away from idols not turning to them as all Catholics do. 1 Corinthians 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. In scripture we see where false doctrine comes from. 1 Timothy 4:1-3 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry. Priests and nuns are forbidden to marry which is just one of the many doctrines of demons the Catholic church has instituted. So the church is run by seducing spirits and demons not the Holy Spirit who will guide the Elect into all truth. John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth. That brings me back to my first objection and that is if some one has the Holy Spirit they cannot continue in the Catholic tradition. Sure I do not doubt that some in the Catholic Church are saved but they will leave the Catholic Church as a result like Martin Luther. The Rock of the Gospel Peter, went to Cornelius family against his cultural conscience and against his own conscience, at first he refused to violate his own conscience, and his group conscience. Even defending his and his group conscience by resisting the guidance of Jesus and he had solid grounds to stand on. He said: I and my group we never touch anything unclean, and he had a good reason to say that, and the Lord new Peter and his group, and their culture. The Lord new that they had the wrong beliefs in that matter, which was part from their Jewish roots, and they believe when they touch something unclean, the unclean thing had the power to make them unclean also. That it was truth, within their Jewish culture and the Law God gave to Moses. With Jesus is not the same, in his ministry hear on earth before the Cross his disciples witness that when unclean people touch him, they became clean, instant of him becoming unclean. here Jesus is informing him that he has cleance the world, but look at the disciples they still believed, teach, practice and judge each other by their conscience still believing that Jesus won't accept their faith and had anything to do with unclean people. Peter learn to have peace in his conscience when he mix with (anything considare unclean ), because he had a new insight, his mind was renew. But it is not the same for the others in his group conscience, and the rest of the Jews who judge Peter of been unclean, and they were right, according to their own understanding, and their rules Peter was unclean, but Peter was clean to Jesus. Then Peter found himself in a conflict situation, to Jesus was clean, to the Jews he was unclean, to the believing Jews, to some who had renew their minds Peter was clean, but to the others who were still in the old mind, he was unclean. And that's how I look at the Catholics, their faith in Jesus Christ cleanses them of all unrighteousness, Jesus knows that, they may know or not know that, and they need the help of rituals, the outsiders may judge them according to how they see things. I look at them through the eternal founder of the blood of Jesus Christ their Savior. That at the end he does not hold our sins against us. He became the propitiations of our sins on the Cross. PS Jonh when he said Idols he had a deferent picture in his mind. He had the Idol Temple, the High Priest of the Temple, their priest, ( no believers of Jesus Christ), their Idol ritual, and their sacrifices. This is deferent that the situation you are attempting to Identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMinou Posted July 27, 2016 Group: Junior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 88 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 89 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2016 On 9 July 2016 at 5:13 PM, DARRELX said: 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." This is contrary to what Christ and His Apostles taught. Islam rejects the divinity of Christ... Qur'an 5:17. They disbelieve those who say, “God is the Christ, the son of Mary.” Say, “Who can prevent God, if He willed, from annihilating the Christ son of Mary, and his mother, and everyone on earth?” To God belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He creates whatever He wills, and God has power over everything. And reject that Jesus is the Son of God... Qur'an 2:116. And they say, “God has begotten a son.” Be He glorified. Rather, His is everything in the heavens and the earth; all are obedient to Him. The Apostle John said... 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. And... John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. So to suggest that Muslims are saved is ludicrous and shows contempt for Our God and His Son Jesus Christ and makes light of the established and most essential truths of our faith and salvation. Jews generally worship the same God as the christians while rejecting the divinity of Christ.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMinou Posted July 27, 2016 Group: Junior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 88 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 89 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2016 On 9 July 2016 at 5:13 PM, DARRELX said: 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." This is contrary to what Christ and His Apostles taught. Islam rejects the divinity of Christ... Qur'an 5:17. They disbelieve those who say, “God is the Christ, the son of Mary.” Say, “Who can prevent God, if He willed, from annihilating the Christ son of Mary, and his mother, and everyone on earth?” To God belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and what is between them. He creates whatever He wills, and God has power over everything. And reject that Jesus is the Son of God... Qur'an 2:116. And they say, “God has begotten a son.” Be He glorified. Rather, His is everything in the heavens and the earth; all are obedient to Him. The Apostle John said... 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. And... John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. So to suggest that Muslims are saved is ludicrous and shows contempt for Our God and His Son Jesus Christ and makes light of the established and most essential truths of our faith and salvation. Jews generally worship the same God as the christians while rejecting the divinity of Christ.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted July 27, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,059 Content Per Day: 14.34 Reputation: 5,193 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, BlueMinou said: Jews generally worship the same God as the christians while rejecting the divinity of Christ.... If you substitute the word Messiah for the word Christ, the above sentence needs to be reworked to be true. Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah. It's not that they reject the Messiah, but He hasn't been revealed to them. There are some Jews who have recognized Jesus as their Messiah, my late aunt being one of them. They are saved just like we are saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueMinou Posted July 27, 2016 Group: Junior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 88 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 89 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2016 21 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: If you substitute the word Messiah for the word Christ, the above sentence needs to be reworked to be true. Jews don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah. It's not that they reject the Messiah, but He hasn't been revealed to them. There are some Jews who have recognized Jesus as their Messiah, my late aunt being one of them. They are saved just like we are saved. Arianius was a christian minister who recognized Jesus as the messiah, but rejected him as divine because he taught the lie that Jesus was a mere creature. He worshipped the same God as we do, but he had the wrong idea and rejected the truth about Jesus for a lie---just like muslims do; And Jehovah's witnesses, and jews who do not accept Jesus as the divine Saviour. What do you have to say about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted July 27, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,059 Content Per Day: 14.34 Reputation: 5,193 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 50 minutes ago, BlueMinou said: Arianius was a christian minister who recognized Jesus as the messiah, but rejected him as divine because he taught the lie that Jesus was a mere creature. He worshipped the same God as we do, but he had the wrong idea and rejected the truth about Jesus for a lie---just like muslims do; And Jehovah's witnesses, and jews who do not accept Jesus as the divine Saviour. What do you have to say about that? Arius was a heretic. That's where the terms Arianism and Arian Heresy come from. He did not worship the same God as we do because Jesus said "I and the Father are one." [NASB, John 10:30] To learn more, read the information in the link cited below. Source: Arianism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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