Sequence-of-Events Analysis

[Last Daze]

5 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

By reverse, there is also no place on earth where Jesus would go - it's been set on fire, mountains smoke, and land is full of blood.

I look at Isaiah 63 as the prophet having an inside look at the relationship between Father and Son which he has demonstrated in his various writing of his visions before.

I see Isaiah 63:1-6 as being in conjunction with the trumpet of God of Zechariah 9.

Then the Lord will appear over them,
And His arrow will go forth like lightning;
And the Lord God will blow the trumpet,
And will march in the storm winds of the south.
The Lord of hosts will defend them.
And they will devour and trample on the sling stones;
And they will drink and be boisterous as with wine;
And they will be filled like a sacrificial basin,
Drenched like the corners of the altar.
And the Lord their God will save them in that day
As the flock of His people;
For they are as the stones of a crown,
Sparkling in His land.   Zechariah 9:14-16

[Marcus O'Reillius]

12 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I see Isaiah 63:1-6 as being in conjunction with the trumpet of God of Zechariah 9.

And as an idea to consider, I view Isaiah 63 as Zechariah 9's logical aftermath, His returning Home after doing all that.

There is no firm basis in either interpretation from Scripture unless you or I or some other person can find some fact in Scripture which sets the two in relationship to each other.

So I do not use Isaiah 63 or Zechariah 9 in building the basic outline structure because neither expressly uses any specific and unique event which allows their sequencing with other known such events.

Now I have to ask an important question about your quotation of Zechariah 9: Who is it that is being saved when the Lord blows the trumpet and defends the same?  I think He is defending the Remnant Jews whom He marshals through the devastations of the second half of the one 'seven' - and He protects the Remnant Jews from the aggressive action of the North's occupying army.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

44 minutes ago, Behold said:

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[Marcus O'Reillius]

Sorry, it happened again.  So I have to post something I don't want to post because I can't change it, delete it, edit it, or even comment on it.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Moving on, here is another linear narrative concerning the end-times that I incorporate into the Sequence-of-Events outline provided so far:

Daniel 11:31 to 12:1

Daniel 11:4-30 describes a generational war between the North and the South during the time of the divided Greek Kingdom.  This foreshadows the latter North/South conflict which marks the end-times.  Interestingly enough, the two invasions of Iraq were by successive generations of the same lineage with the Bush Presidents.

Daniel 11:31-35 describes a near-term prophecy to Israel of Antiochus IV Epiphanes.  This figure is used by God to translate farther into the future to the end-time anti-Christ. As such, the abomination of Zeus he puts up in the Temple in 168 B.C., during the sixty-two 'sevens' acts as a jumping off point for discussing the end-time anti-Christ.

Daniel 11:31-35 serves as the lens of Dual Focus. The events and descriptions these four verses give describe the past, but they also may be very well meant for the future as well.

Daniel 11:36-39 gives a general description of a person not yet seen in history; this would be a description of the end-time anti-Christ.

Daniel 11:40-12:1 picks up a linear narrative which can be set in bullet points as follows:

• Flash flood invasion of Holy Land.
• He pitches his tent at the Holy Mountain. (Yet he will meet his end)
• Who is like God arises
• Great Distress
• Deliverance of all those found in the Book.

Several things bear pointing out:

• The quickness of his invasion (like a flood) matches the quickness that the abomination is put into effect quickly (on wing).  
• The Holy Mountain in the Bible is Mount Moriah, the Temple Mount.  
• He does not come to his end in verse 11:45, (yet) but it is assured.  
• Mikael means "who is like God" arises; the abomination rates a response from God and we see that in the overall sequence of events with the Two Witnesses.
• The Great Distress is unique, so too is the Great Tribulation; they are the same specific and unique time of martyrdom: a terrible time which God says He will match with terrible times for those who brought it on; martyrs will be avenged.
• The deliverance of all those in the book describes Daniel's people. The Elect can include more than just the Church for those who are resting in peace in Paradise. The Elect can include OT Saints with NT Saints who passed away naturally. This will bring in a Great Multitude of Saints.

The war between North and South in Daniel 11:4-30 was an on-going generational war between two parts of the dissolved Greek Kingdom that took place over 150 years.  This description is so deftly exact; critics conclude Daniel is historic rather than prophetic.  Daniel 11:31-35 is the lens of dual focus and shifts near-term prophecy to far-term.  So the starting premise here is that the North/South conflict, when examining those verses which narrate action in the final few verses starting in 11:40 and going to 12:1, has been an on-going and underlying condition.  In modern times, that underlying condition to the rapid invasion of the Holy Land and the seminal midpoint event is the War on Terror.  The War on Terror, in my opinion, will be the basis for uniting old enemies in the North.  With this conclusion on my part, I will state this underlying condition from Daniel 11 to be the starting point for the Sequence of Events as listed here.  I do think that the War on Terror describes the basis for the final conflict found in the one ‘seven’ which has the world go through WWIII, and still is not settled until the final battle of the one ‘seven’ at Armageddon.  In a broader context, there are prophetic events of the end-times which have not been listed here so far, but I think some of them also precede this listed first event; this is not a complete list – there is still more to add.

There are two one-for-one comparisons between Daniel 11:31-12:1 and our list. The camping by the Holy Mountain and Luke 21:20's surrounding of Jerusalem, and the Great Distress/Tribulation. In between we see "who is like God" arising to answer the call and the first two on the scene are God's Marines: the Two Witnesses.  Putting Daniel 11:31-12:1 into sequence of events matches perfectly with what the other accounts present; God is consistent in ALL the major eschatological linear narratives and that holds true for the minor ones as well.

• War (on Terror) between North and South
• The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea”
  • with ten Kings (Council of Ministers)
  • Little horn "hamstrings" three "Kings" to rise to power over the Beast of a Nation
  • Rebellion occurs
  • Opposition and exaltation
• Covenant with many prevailed by the Roman ruler who will come
• Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven'
  • He wages war against the Saints
  • We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15)
  • Temple w/ Gentiles 42 mos.
  • Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky'
• The “one” removed from the midst
• Gog/Magog War - flash flood invasion of Holy Land
  • Armies surround Jerusalem - pitches his tent at the Holy Mountain.
• Midpoint Abomination - Setting up the talking image of the anti-Christ
  • Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever
  • “Mikael" arises
  • Two Witnesses 1260 days - call down Wrath
  • Great Tribulation
• Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD.
  • Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man
  • Jesus touches down on Mount Zion
  • Mustering the 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion
  • 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked
    • The Last Trumpet Call of God
    • Dead in Christ are Resurrected
  • Son of Man coming on the clouds with the Saints
  • Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the earth
    • Those who are alive and are left are gathered up
  • Great Multitude arrive in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation
  • Books / Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal
  • First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned
    • Avenging Angels – supplying Blood and managing the Fire
• Wrath of God following the Day of the Lord
  • Second Trumpet  - 1/3rd of sea to blood
  • Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter
  • Fourth Trumpet - 1/3rd of light struck
  • Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment
  • Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rdf of man killed
  • Seventh Trumpet
    • First Bowl - Sores on Man
    • Second Bowl - All sea to blood
    • Third Bowl - All water to blood
    • Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat
    • Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark
    • Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon
      • Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss
      • The Great Multitude and the 24 Elders rejoice in Heaven
      • Jesus and His army (144,000 go out to do battle
    • Seventh Bowl – Man of Lawlessness is undone:
      • end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator
      • Victory at Armageddon
      • anti-Christ and false prophet captured
      • Two Witnesses arise
      •  Earth changing earthquake
• End of the one ‘seven’
  • Beast of a Man thrown into Hell – done away with entirely
• First three beasts allowed to live a while (30/45 day periods)
• Christ returns to Heaven
  • Satan imprisoned
  • Martyrs made alive
  • Rewarding the Saints
• Establishment of Millennium reign of Christ
  • Saints rule the earth
• Satan released at end of Millennium
  • Revolt of the nations / their destruction
• Great White Throne Judgment

 

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

As per Isaiah 63:1-6 He returns to Heaven after the Day of the Lord.

I guess this is where we differ.  Our Lord's return in only described as a singular event such as "His coming" or "the coming of."  If there were multiple comings such as at the sixth seal and at the seventh trumpet I would think the language would support that but I don't see where it does.  Its always a definite article, singular event.

What is the exception that you see that prevents the Lord's return from happening only at the seventh trumpet?

[Marcus O'Reillius]

26 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I guess this is where we differ.  Our Lord's return in only described as a singular event such as "His coming" or "the coming of."  If there were multiple comings such as at the sixth seal and at the seventh trumpet I would think the language would support that but I don't see where it does.  Its always a definite article, singular event.

What is the exception that you see that prevents the Lord's return from happening only at the seventh trumpet?

In the detailed parallel account of just the one 'seven' with Revelation chapters 13 through 16 (inclusive) - Jesus is on the earth before in 14:1 the Harvest of 14:14-16 and the first Trumpet in 14:17-19 and well before the final battle at Armageddon which is referenced in Chapter 16.

So the principle here is that Jesus comes (singular) on the Day of the Lord.  And as with the 144,000 in verse 14:4 suggests. Jesus is quite capable of moving wherever He needs go.  Once He comes, His presence is established, and subsequent visitations are on an as-needed basis.

One of these is marshalling the Remnant Jews.  The finale is at Armageddon.  Even in the Millennium, Jesus need not be present on the earth continuously to be a factual reality in their world.

So Jesus as the strongman is like the saying about the 800 pound gorilla; who is going to tell Him where He can go and can't go?

[Last Daze]

On 7/23/2016 at 8:07 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

v. 15  Midpoint Abomination, which adds: standing in the “Holy Place”
v. 21  Great Tribulation, which is shortened by the:
v. 29  Sun/moon/star event, which heralds the Day of the Lord
v. 30  Sign of the Son of Man

v. 30  The Son of Man coming on the clouds
v. 31  Gathering Elect from the clouds

 

This linear narrative has five, important, specific and unique events in their proscribed order with the added benefit of having joining time stamps in two of them.  This passage is the Keystone Passage for the Sequence of Events because it allows the harmonization of Daniel’s one ‘seven’ to the broad overview of the end-times in Revelation with the Seal/Scroll chronology.

I can agree that v29 and the first part of v30 tie in to the sixth seal.

What I don't see is any evidence for the second part of v30 and v31 being tied in there as well.  I see an indeterminate amount of time lapsing between 30a and 30b.  I believe it to be that time when the wrath of God is being brought to bear.

[Last Daze]

On 7/28/2016 at 8:17 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

 

2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2

• Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD.

 

I agree that the day of the Lord is when we are gathered to Him.  We also know that the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night.

If His coming like a thief (day of the Lord) happens at the sixth seal, as indicated above, then why does He say that He is coming like a thief as the armies gather for Armageddon in Rev 16:15?

[Marcus O'Reillius]

17 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I can agree that v29 and the first part of v30 tie in to the sixth seal.

What I don't see is any evidence for the second part of v30 and v31 being tied in there as well.  I see an indeterminate amount of time lapsing between 30a and 30b.  I believe it to be that time when the wrath of God is being brought to bear.

So we do have the sign of the Day of the Lord, the sun/moon/star event, coming immediately after the days of the Great Tribulation - which are shortened by the Father so that all (applicable) life not be lost.  
(The only applicable life that is being lost are those who disobey the two laws put into effect with the midpoint abomination by the false prophet: worship or die / can't buy or sell.)

We even have agreement on the sign of the Son of Man / Scrolling of the sky tied in between the two.

Now how long are we to wait for the gathering from the clouds by Jesus and His Angels?
For a Post-Trib (last day) adherent, of course you see an indeterminate amount of time lapsing until that happens.
And of course, next you're expecting the Wrath of God to be brought to bear.  
You place the Rapture at the end of the one 'seven' if I guess your eschatology correctly.
___________________________________________

Evidence for an immediate / same day Rapture

1.) Sixth Seal: The Great Multitude comes out of the Great Tribulation.
Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" 14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple;

2.) Paul's 1st letter to the Thessalonians; He puts goes without pause from Jesus' descent from Heaven to the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ and the Rapture of the Elect.
4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

3.) In the detailed, parallel account to the Seal/Scroll chronology of Rev 4-11 (exclusive), is the midpoint abomination / Harvest of Rev 13-16 (inclusive).

• The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea”
  • Worship of the beast (rebellion against God)

• Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven'
  • He wages war against the Saints

  • We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15)

• Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky'

• Erection of the talking image of the anti-Christ: the midpoint abomination

• Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever for the Church in terms of persecution

• 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion with Jesus standing on the earth.

• 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked

• Son of Man coming on the clouds

• Harvest from the earth

• Avenging Angels - Blood and Fire

• First Bowl - Sores on Man

• Second Bowl - All sea to blood

• Third Bowl - All water to blood

• Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat

• Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark

• Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon N/S/E

• Seventh Bowl - Earth changing earthquake

Missing from this sequence of events are a lot of other events - that is the nature of prophecy: it never spells everything out at once.
One of the things missing is the sun/moon/star sign.
However, like with the sixth Seal - we have the 144,000 front and center.
And like Matthew 24:14 - we have the necessary condition for the "end", that the Gospel be preached throughout the whole world with the first of three Angels.

But the greatest impediment for your viewpoint is that here, just like it is in the Seal/Scroll chronology: the Harvest comes BEFORE God's Wrath.
And the first thing to happen are two elements of the Day of the Lord's Wrath - fire and blood - which is also just like the first Trumpet of the Seal/Scroll chronology.

4.) In Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians, he links our Rapture with His Coming:
2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
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Now if the Great Tribulation is abruptly cut short (the Greek word for 'cut short' is an agricultural term which means to "dock" and animals' tail) by the sun/moon/star event - and Jesus said it was - 
And if the Great Multitude come out of the Great Tribulation - and an Elder said they did - 
And if when Jesus comes, He resurrects the Dead and Raptures the Elect - and Paul said He will - twice -
And if God's Wrath comes AFTER the Harvest and the Great Tribulation assembled before the Father - and in both parallel accounts in Revelation it does -

How long are we to wait in suspended animation after the sun/moon/star event cuts short the Great Tribulation and Jesus gathers us up BEFORE His Wrath falls upon the wicked?

Logically, I put the Rapture as happening very soon after Jesus alights upon the earth and musters the 144,000.
If not, we have the forces of the wicked just stand slack while this force is arrayed upon the now-split Mount of Olives for days without doing anything... that doesn't make sense.
When Jesus stands upon Mount Zion, action is necessary.  The Hero has arrived, and He has a Plan to counter evil to put into effect.