StanJ Posted November 30, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1953 Share Posted November 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Beebert said: So you mean it is not to say "no" to Christ? Not to "fall away" from faith? Not to say "no" to salvation? Matthew 12:31-32 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. 1 John 5:16-17 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJ Posted November 30, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1953 Share Posted November 30, 2016 2 hours ago, shiloh357 said: The sin against the Holy Spirit consists in continual impenitence and unbelief. It is not an act, but habit. It is the calm, determined, and persevering rejection of Jesus Christ as the Savior of man, in opposition to all the testimony of His word and Spirit. Consequently, its nature is incapable of forgiveness. N on who is afraid of having committed this sin has done so; for its very nature is to have no fear on that account. It is committed and continued in delightedly and knowingly, where it is committed at all. If a person were to repent of this sin, they would of course, be forgiven because there is no sin that is bigger than the blood of Jesus. But the nature of the sin makes it impossible for them to see a need to repent. They are happy and satisfied to live habitually this way. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a lifestyle, an ongoing lifestyle purposed in open rebellion and slander against God. It's not a one time sin you commit. It is a way of life that one lives in daily. One of the biggest misunderstandings about this sin is that it such a horrible sin that not even God can find it in Himself to forgive it. The problem with that take on this is that it makes man more powerful than God. It means that we can out-sin God's grace and it means that Jesus' sacrifice is, in fact, insufficient for all sin. That is simply untenable. Unbelievers don't sin and if you read the example in Matthew 12, those were believers who were sinning. Jesus himself said sinning against the Son of Man was forgivable, so your conclusions here are erroneous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted November 30, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted November 30, 2016 1 minute ago, StanJ said: Unbelievers don't sin and if you read the example in Matthew 12, those were believers who were sinning. Jesus himself said sinning against the Son of Man was forgivable, so your conclusions here are erroneous. Can you show me scripture for those 2 things you just said? Where does it say that unbelievers do not sin? Where does it say that sin against the Holy Spirit is forgivable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, StanJ said: Unbelievers don't sin and if you read the example in Matthew 12, those were believers who were sinning. Jesus himself said sinning against the Son of Man was forgivable, so your conclusions here are erroneous. Unbelievers DO sin. They are called "sinners." All sinners sin. To say that unbelievers don't sin is just nonsense. When I use the term "believers" I use it the way the NT uses it. "Believers" are those who have trusted in Christ for salvation. "Believers" under the OT economy are not born again, baptized believers in Jesus Christ. The Pharisees were not NT believers. They were rejecters of Jesus. They were unregenerate, hell-bound sinners. I reject your erroneous and futile attempt to redefine "believers" to include those rejected Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJ Posted November 30, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1953 Share Posted November 30, 2016 8 hours ago, Beebert said: This I understand. But if a person does go against Christ in this way But then regrets that fact? Matthew 12 is very clear... if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit you're not forgiven... if you speak against the Son of God you can be forgiven... I'm not sure why this is problematic for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJ Posted November 30, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1953 Share Posted November 30, 2016 36 minutes ago, angels4u said: Can you show me scripture for those 2 things you just said? Where does it say that unbelievers do not sin? Where does it say that sin against the Holy Spirit is forgivable? How exactly can unbelievers sin if they're not under the law? If blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is the only thing that is unforgivable then obviously that means that any other sin against the holy spirit is forgivable. Do you always do everything the Holy Spirit leads you to do? If you don't, is that not sin? Rom 14:23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted November 30, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted November 30, 2016 15 minutes ago, StanJ said: How exactly can unbelievers sin if they're not under the law? If blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is the only thing that is unforgivable then obviously that means that any other sin against the holy spirit is forgivable. Do you always do everything the Holy Spirit leads you to do? If you don't, is that not sin? Rom 14:23. I thought that believers were not under the law which would mean that unbelievers are under the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJ Posted November 30, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1953 Share Posted November 30, 2016 46 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Unbelievers DO sin. They are called "sinners." All sinners sin. To say that unbelievers don't sin is just nonsense. When I use the term "believers" I use it the way the NT uses it. "Believers" are those who have trusted in Christ for salvation. "Believers" under the OT economy are not born again, baptized believers in Jesus Christ. The Pharisees were not NT believers. They were rejecters of Jesus. They were unregenerate, hell-bound sinners. I reject your erroneous and futile attempt to redefine "believers" to include those rejected Jesus. Did Jesus die for sin or sinners? Did God so love sinners or did God so love the world? How can you use state with full certainty that Believers in the Old Testament were never born again? What exactly do you think the Bible means by born again? In fact the New Testament is replete with examples of Pharisees that believed. If I were you I would worry more about your judgmental attitude then whether or not the Old Testament people we're believers. You reject a lot but then again you don't have much credibility so it doesn't really bother me. You are just as wrong about your perceptions here as the Pharisees were about theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJ Posted November 30, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 336 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/08/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1953 Share Posted November 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, Remnantrob said: I thought that believers were not under the law which would mean that unbelievers are under the law. In the Bible, Believers are separated into two groups, Old Covenant Believers and New Covenant Believers. The former were under the written law and the latter are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 23 minutes ago, StanJ said: Did Jesus die for sin or sinners? Did God so love sinners or did God so love the world? How can you use state with full certainty that Believers in the Old Testament were never born again? What exactly do you think the Bible means by born again? In fact the New Testament is replete with examples of Pharisees that believed. If I were you I would worry more about your judgmental attitude then whether or not the Old Testament people we're believers. You reject a lot but then again you don't have much credibility so it doesn't really bother me. You are just as wrong about your perceptions here as the Pharisees were about theirs. I did not say anything about the OT believers. There were OT saints. No one is denying that. But you are using that to muddy the water about the unbelievers who blasphemed the Holy Spirit. No one under the OT economy was born again, or filled with the Spirit. That is a NT concept. The men who accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the prince of demons were not "believers." You will not convince anyone that they were. That's who we're talking about. Yes there were Pharisees who became believers in Jesus, but that is beside the point here. The men who rejected Jesus were not believers and were on their way to Hell. I'll stick with the Bible on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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