Once saved always saved?

[HAZARD]

You did post this didn't you ?

5 hours ago, Behold said:

Once a believer believes they can lose their salvation, they have "fallen from Grace" Galatians 5:4.

They have also become Galatians 1:8

That is you.

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by HAZARD

[FresnoJoe]

22 hours ago, southrnbygrace said:

So basically ya'll are saying that once you're a Christian, you're perfect...you cease being human and making human mistakes. You cannot and will not ever do anything to disappoint God. I really do wish I was that perfect. But I'm not. Every day I make bad decisions, some times unknowingly and sometimes I know it's wrong but in my humanness I still make the wrong decision. I guess all I can do is ask for prayers.

Yeap~!

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:19-28

Prayer Ought To

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Romans 8:26   

Do It

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:25

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 2 Timothy 2:11-13

Jesus Is LORD~!

[PatrolMan]

On 8/2/2016 at 10:41 AM, Behold said:

You are just as saved, as you are "Born again".

And if you can become "unborn again", ......

= Not going to happen.

Salvation is not a part time situation, and it does not depend on you to keep it., as it was not you that created you to be saved.

What happened to Lucifer?

[HAZARD]

17 minutes ago, PatrolMan said:

What happened to Lucifer?

 He was the most perfect created being God ever created. He was created perfect and sinless and became the enemy of God and man through sin in trying to exalt himself above God.

 Ezek. 28:13, Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
    14, Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    15, Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

 He turned from perfection and from God and sinned;

Ezek. 28: 16, By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
    17, Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
    18, Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
    19, All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

We are all able to fall if we let our guard down.

1 Tim. 3:6, Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Lucifer was perfect and lived in a perfect situation and there was no sin until he fell, so if a perfect being living in a perfect sinless realm with God Himself can fall who are we to think we cannot fall if we let our guard down and turn to sin?

[Flsnookman]

Lucifer is an angel and angels can not be saved, only humans can. Nice try though.

[PatrolMan]

1 hour ago, Flsnookman said:

Lucifer is an angel and angels can not be saved, only humans can. Nice try though.

These are the two people that lost their salvation that I KNOW OF. Lucifer and the Prodigal son. The Son got back with the father. This my son who was dead and is alive again. Can't do something again if you haven't done it before.

[Flsnookman]

Again lucifer is not a "people". And while the prodigal son may have been lost he was always a son.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Flsnookman

[HAZARD]

3 hours ago, Flsnookman said:

Lucifer is an angel and angels can not be saved, only humans can. Nice try though.

 

Lucifer convinced one third of Gods innumerable angels to rebel with him. This rebellion, this convincing one third of God's angels to side with Lucifer would have taken an enormous amount of time. Do you think God would have just sat there and not do something?

I'm sure God would have allowed them plenty of time to reconsider their intended actions. Angels were a part of God's creation. Lucifer was a perfect angel and he sinned.

We, Adam and Eve, were not only a perfect creation, but more so than Lucifer and the angels because we were created in God's image and in His likeness, perfect until we sinned.

When God said to Adam, "Ye shall surly die," he meant it and when He says to saved men today that the sould that sinneth it shall die, He means it. This applies to all menwho sin and saved men today are no exception. Both Adam and Eve believed the first teacher of unconditional security, the devil, and lost their eternal life. So it is today with all who sin and believe the modern lie of the devil that sinning saints cannot be lost.

Eternal life does not make us members of the Deity, for we would then be equal with God. If we were members of the Godhead we could not sin, because God cannot sin; we could not make mistakes, because God cannot make mistakes. We would be absolutely and eternally holy and have all the qualities of Deity.

We know this is not true of human beings who are in Christ, so they cannot be members of the Deity. If they are not members of the Godhead when they receive eternal life, then eternal life is not their own life, and therefore, it remains God's life as long as they are in union with God. They are in union with God until sin again separates them from Him (Isa. 59:2; Romans 8:12, 13; Ezek. 18:4; James 5:19, 20; Gal. 5:19-21; 6:7, 8).

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who has all the qualities of Deity and who is a part of the Godhead. He has self-existent life by virtue of being a member of the Deity (John 5:26; 1 John 5:7, 8; John 3:16). Men are merely adopted sons and life as long as the penalty death is not passed upon them because of sin after they get into Christ.

If this is true, then the teaching about security that men in Christ cannot die again regardless of how much they sin is wholly false. Similarly, the idea is false that one can lose fellowship but not relationship. What good is relationship if one goes to eternal Hell and suffers the penalty for sin that he would have suffered had he never been saved?

Lucifer, many angels, demons, and men who were at one time in God's grace or favour are going to spend eternity in eternal Hell regardless of sonship, fellowship, and relationship with God. When fellowship is lost, relationship means nothing. All angels are called "sons of God" (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). Fallen angels are still "sons of God" but many of them are in Hell today (2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6, 7) and all of them will finally go to Hell regardless of sonship (Matt 25:41). Not one passage in Scripture ever hints that a man may lose fellowship because of sin and still retain relationship with God and eternal life in Heaven.

Why do not men who teach this doctrine give simple Scriptures that prove their point; that is furnish Scriptures that do not need to be twisted in order to get the desired meaning? Why don't they give some concrete examples in Scripture where men have lost fellowship and died out of fellowship and have gone to Heaven? Such Scriptural examples cannot be found and this is the reason they do not quote them. Why would God want to take free moral agents to Heaven who choose to be out of fellowship with Him? Why would God have fellowship with creatures in Heaven that He cannot fellowship on Earth? Surely they have committed sin, or they would not be out of fellowship. Where is there one statement that God is under obligation to take such men to Heaven when they die out of fellowship? Where is there any Scripture that God is obligated to bring them back into fellowship with Him just because they die? Suppose a man is suddenly killed before he has a chance to regain fellowship as has been true of many? Is God obligated to fellowship him just because he dies? Would God not be broad enough to fellowship men while they are alive in sin if He has to do it when they die in sin?

It is inconceivable that God will fill Heaven with such creatures who are out of fellowship with Him. If He will not fellowship them on Earth he will not do it in Heaven and there is no Scripture that obligates Him to ever do so.

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by HAZARD

[Flsnookman]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

Eternal life does not make us members of the Deity, for we would then be equal with God. If we were members of the Godhead we could not sin, because God cannot sin; we could not make mistakes, because God cannot make mistakes. We would be absolutely and eternally holy and have all the qualities of Deity.

 

Yet God says we are as Jesus is here and now(1 John 4:17) that we are citizens of Heaven right now (Phi 3:20) and that we face no condemnation (Rom 8:1).  Since you are so deceived as to argue with God I doubt you will look at these verses. I also know you wont read Romans and allow yourself to see what it is really saying. You are walking in the darkness of religion not in the light of the Truth. You like to give warnings well here is one for you, when Jesus walked the earth there was a group then that was also walking in the darkness of self salvation and religion and they too failed to recognize the Messiah. Do not be a modern day pharisee, the world is full of those, instead believe you are who God says you are and walk in the light.

Jesus already did the hard part, we need only have faith in what He has accomplished. Sadly for you and many, many others who rely on self salvation coming to rely on that faith is, it seems, more difficult than walking on water. There is always hope however and I will pray your eyes are opened to the Truth. I know God can open both your eyes and your mind to His Truth because He let me see it though I went kicking and protesting the whole way.

You do know we are coheirs with Christ do you not? (Rom 8:17) 

Lastly being holy does not mean having all the qualities of God. Holy means separate. Once saved we are made both righteous (Rom 3:22, 2 Cor 5:21) and holy (Heb 10:10).

I realize that I wont be able to remove the scales from your eyes, only God can do that but I will post the verses i've quoted just in case you are wondering what they say.

1 John 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Philippians 3:20  For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:17  And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Romans 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

2 Corinthians 5:21  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Hebrews 10:10  By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Flsnookman

[TehMill]

12 hours ago, HAZARD said:

No, it is not me at all. You need to stop making this thread personal. Get all the scriptures on the subject not just choose one or two here and there?

Gal 1:8, Teaches that the gospel had not only been preached to them, but they had received it and all the benefits therefore, any removal from grace V.6 or fall from grace (5:4) was backsliding from the gospel.

That falling from grace is possible is clear here (Gal. 5:4; 1:6-8; 2:21; 3:1-5; 4:9-10, 19: Acts 13:43; 2 Cor. 6:1; Heb. 12:15; Jude 4).

Read these Scriptures, you might learn something for your own good;

Gal. 5:4,  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Gal. 1:6-8, I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
    7, Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
    8, But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9, As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Gal. 2:21, I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal. 3:1-5, V. 1, O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
    2, This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    3, Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
    4, Have ye suffered so many1 things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
    5, He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal. 4:9-10, V.9, But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
    10, Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Acts 13:43,  43, Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

2 Cor. 6-1, We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Heb. 12:  15, Looking diligently lest any man fail4 of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

Jude 1:4  For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul does not tell those Galatians who had been bewitched that they were now damned, he everywhere exhorts them to shun the false brethren who were preaching obedience to the law as a way to be saved....those who teach conditional salvation [that is that salvation can be lost] is the same false message. Of course they no longer teach circumcision but they do preach obedience to the law as necessary to salvation.

 

It is a very bewitching message still.

 

Paul is still as adamant as rock, he still says "if you will be justified by the law then you must keep ALL the law" if you fail in one then you fail in the whole.

 

What they are saying is that the cross has not worked and is of no avail. They are holding up the cross to shame. People just do not know how serious a thing it is.

If they understood that Galatians is written about them and those chapters in Hebrews which they beat everyone else with is for THEM.

 

They are the ones who have drawn back [from the cross] they are the ones who have not held fast their first confession.