Zemke Posted September 15, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 15, 2016 It's understandable the scriptures butero uses and his perspective, I have never cared for shilos methods of rudery, but calvanistic predestination is a nasty business historically and the fruit is horrid. Philosophically it's fatalistic and more Islamic than anything else. The use of enslavement or violence to bring about, what we think is, His will is justified and leads to nothing good. Arrogance that wills. Salem for one and the southern states where sprinkled with that one. Find Calvinistic predestination historically and find bad stuff. Control, control, control. The fruit is proof enough for me to seek further understanding and stand apart from that theology in seeking the will of the Lord. Separating the two thoughts and debate them is what's wrong in the first lace. The truth is not in either/or but both. Separate them and begin to go wrong. Sometimes it's simply got to be enough to fall at His feet and admit how ignorant we are. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The Sermon on the Mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted September 20, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted September 20, 2016 When One Throws Out Love The LORD appeared of old to me, saying, 'Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love: therefore with loving kindness have I drawn you. Jeremiah 31:3 (New Heart English Bible) That Leaves One For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:15 (American King James Version) To Become See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God. But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. Hebrews 3:12-13 (Berean Study Bible) A Fashion Statement Surely the wrath of man shall praise you; the remnant of wrath you will put on like a belt. Psalms 76:10 (English Standard Version) ~ Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible) Love, Your Brother Joe ~ All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal. Psalms 119:160 (New International Version) The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed. Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents. From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted September 20, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted September 20, 2016 On 8/29/2016 at 10:13 PM, Ezra said: Absolutely. Lucifer sought to be God, if not more than God. Thus sin (which is essentially rebellion) came into existence. And Satan is clearly identified by his Hebrew name -- ha Satan -- as the Adversary, hence the source of all evil. God cannot -- and never will -- decree evil. But He does tolerate it "for a season". For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." Romans 9:17 (New American Standard Bible) ~ Isn't He, beautiful Beautiful, isn't He Prince of Peace, Son of God Isn't He Isn't He, Wonderful Wonderful, Isn't He Counselor, Almighty God Isn't He, isn't He, isn't He http://www.praisecharts.com/songs/details/26948/isnt-he-sheet-music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x1is1 Posted September 20, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,146 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 732 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/30/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1950 Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) Colbal1969. . . . . . I'm merely reading today, not participating. But I'd like to know about the shark too. Thanks OOOps, you replied while I was posting....... thanks Edited September 20, 2016 by 1x1is1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 On 9/20/2016 at 0:12 AM, Yowm said: Butero in his latest post (8/19/2016)... Is this the motive of the Soapbox or shouldn't it be to bring out truth that both sides may be edified? I have enjoyed reading the back and forth in this thread so I can get the perspective of others on how they feel about the debate, and I don't plan to use this post to defend my doctrinal position or attack those who disagree with it. I just want to address your point. I am fine with simply discussing the issue in a respectful manner so both sides may be edified. That is a worthy goal to have, but it is not possible unless both participants in the discussion are respectful of each other. When you are constantly having to defend yourself against heresy, slandering God, not understanding doctrine, being told that you have already been proven wrong and then you are left to have to continually show how that is not true but being ignored, sometimes you have to fight back to show that the other person hasn't done what they have claimed. When you are constantly being accused of not understanding Hebrew and Greek words, don't use proper Bible exegesis and don't understand hermeneutics, those are charges that are hard to fight off, when they are meant to create the illusion you are inferior to the one you are debating. You have to do what you have to do. If that means trying to destroy the credibility of the one trying to destroy your credibility, so be it. If my opponent can accept the fact that I have valid points, even if he doesn't agree, and be civil, I can do the same. As for the actual substance of the debate, and the topic of pre-destination and election, I will save that for the Soap Box and leave all of you to have your say in this thread. Thanks for your interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 13 minutes ago, Yowm said: I can accept human frailty as an excuse (some people don't); and I'm glad I'm not in one of those Soapbox debates, I don't think I'd last a day. I can tell you this much. Shiloh seems to want to double down, so I have no choice in my mind but to make sure that he is so discredited, he can't get back up again. I wish it wasn't that way, but he is the one that wants to try to win a debate by discrediting me over simply giving his view of what the Bible is teaching. We could just as easily give our opinion as to what different passages mean and how we view things like God's foreknowledge as opposed to fully orchestrating things and move on. We could agree that both sides have things to share, but Shiloh has made it clear to me that this is a war for him. He won't be satisfied till I am destroyed, so I have to destroy him first. I don't want to. I have to. It is kill or be killed, and he has no idea what is coming. I just got through reading one of his responses to me, and I couldn't help but laugh at it because it was so absurd, and that isn't the one I just responded to. It was his silly defense of the way he handled a Hebrew word. Nobody in their right mind would take that answer serious. Anyway, I thought your post was important to give a response to because it shows how things came across to someone reading the Soap Box debate. You only know what you read. You can't know the reason why we say what we do. You can only guess. I am telling you why I am dealing with Shiloh the way I am at this time. To be honest with you, I almost felt sorry for him when I posted that, and I feel bad for what I am going to have to do going forward. At the same time, I am not going to sit back and be target practice for him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flsnookman Posted September 21, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 216 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 165 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/19/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 21, 2016 A question if I may? Would creating something that has the capacity for evil be the same as creating evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Yowm said: Well, I don't think most of us see it as a war, and neither should we be, but it has been a thread I have reaped some good insights from...and that's what matters. Thanks. I will take that into consideration as I proceed. God bless, and carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted September 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 22, 2016 8 hours ago, Flsnookman said: A question if I may? Would creating something that has the capacity for evil be the same as creating evil? No it would not. The whole point of having free will is to make the better choices. But if men love darkness rather than light, we cannot hold God responsible for that. So to claim that God has decreed every heinous crimes and atrocity is to blaspheme God. God is withholding His judgments temporarily, but the Law of Cause and Effect (Sowing and Reaping) is applicable even now, and has been in place since the Garden of Eden was created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 22, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 To say that which God hates comes from God is sheer lunacy and I would not wish to give an account of this error ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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