Purgatory again (another look)

[markdohle]

Purgatory again
(another look)

I am shy being here.  Though I do post, I do not use scripture the way many do on this site.  It seems that each person has their own string of scripture quotes and they then face off with another opponent with their grouping of scriptures and then talk or argue and at times scream at each other over each ones interpretation. I think that is fine, it is how things are often done when talking about the bible. Though here the level of charity seems to be very high, so I have come to respect everyone, even those who disagree with me for we are all one in Christ Jesus….or least I believe that.    

I tend not to us scripture that way; I feel that it is a waste of time and effort, since it is not possible to change anyone’s mind on just about anything.  However people do mature and change over the years.  Those who do not, their rigidity can isolate them in their surety and they in the end do little good to reach others.  We can fail to see others if we think we are in some way infallible in our interpretation of scripture and those who disagree with us simply do not have the Holy Spirit and perhaps they are on the way to hell.  How we love to send others to hell.  It says something about the human heart, its inner conflict to actually love as Christ tells us, yet to use hell as a way to dispose of those we don’t agree with.  I find it a horror if truth be told.  Christ Jesus came to save, yet often, Christians want to make hell as full as possible…though Christ told us not to judge for a reason, because we really, really suck at it. 

To me the term “Purgatory” represent a state of being and not some place of imprisonment.  ““The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence”--- John Paul II. 

God the Father in Christ Jesus is calling all to a loving relationship.  All relationships that have any real love in them, and even those with those we struggle with have a purgatorial aspect to them, they bring out our own inner wounds and struggles to be able to love and to be present with others.  The more self centered we are, for instance, the deeper the struggle to become free enough to have an actual loving contact with others.   This takes humility, the letting go of blame and a radical acceptance that we are not victims if we choose to understand that most of our problems are based on an inability to love.  So it is with our relationship with God the Father as revealed to us by Christ Jesus.

 

I believe that like Jacob we wrestle with God.  And like Jacob we are wounded when we do that by God, it causes us to limp.  We are made aware of our fragility when God slowly heals us of our self centeredness; we are lead to make choices that cause inner struggle and conflict with ourselves.  This is another form of purification and death to self…..this is another purgatorial state. 

 

In the Gospel of Luke Jesus says this:  Luke 3:16-17

John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

His winnowing fork is in His hand to thoroughly clear His threshing floor and to gather the wheat into His barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

This verse can be looked at on different levels.  One level is that in our own souls, the chaff will be burned away (be healed) by the infinite fire of God’s love, which is unquenchable.  St. Paul talks about that as well:

“For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw — each man’s work will become manifest; for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.  If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire”. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

So the experience of purgatory is in actuality Gods love continuing the work of salvation in the soul.  As we suffer in this life in the dying to self, so it continues if we do not trust or allow God’s love to fill us.  If we fear the letting go, it is grace that allows this to continue in purgatory

“The fire of loss is the fire of Hell. The saving fire is the purgative fire of Purgatory.  The purgative, saving fire brings a soul to full holiness; for “without holiness, no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).   This is why a soul who desires to dwell with God and glorify God desires to be purified before seeing the face of the Lord.   A soul burden with the residuals of sin is encumbered in its ability to glorify God.  Through His infinite mercy, God purges the residuals of sin with fire and lovingly draws the soul in.

Oh, how our souls should yearn for the fire of Christ’s scared heart, a heart that burns with love and mercy!  Oh, to be consumed and purified by the fires of His heart.”

I don’t expect this to change any ones mind about the reality of purgatory.  However purgatory is still based on God’s saving grace.  Souls still being purified are saved by Jesus Christ, it is God who heals and brings his work to completion. 

I pray for the souls in purgatory because they are still on the way, as I pray for all my brothers and sisters in this world…..Christ calls us each to grow in love and compassion.  We are a royal priesthood and Christ Jesus also works in and though us.  We are his hands and his feet, his mouthpiece,  for we have died and it is Christ Jesus who continues his saving work in our souls, all we need do is to open our hearts and that will lead to praying and loving all others…..judgment is God’s alone, for he is infinite truth and love.  So I pray for the salvation of all and am at peace.  In judging others, I am only judging myself.
 

Edited September 11, 2016 by markdohle
was told that links weren't allowed

[Wayne222]

Mark I like what you wrote. I dont believe in a actual place of purgatory where departed spirits go to be cleanse from there sins. This life is where that is on going. Right now God our Father is training us in righteousness and he does that by discipline.  Which can be painful.  No one will be perfect in holiness in this life. Christ is our righteousness imparted to us by faith. HWhen we die we go into heaven and see God because we have christ righteousness.  Now if we have no personal righteousness we will not see God because this proves we are not children of God. All who are his children walk as he walked. Thanks brother I love your writings.  I know you know him.

[RustyAngeL]

6 hours ago, markdohle said:

Purgatory again
(another look)

I am shy being here.  Though I do post, I do not use scripture the way many do on this site.  It seems that each person has their own string of scripture quotes and they then face off with another opponent with their grouping of scriptures and then talk or argue and at times scream at each other over each ones interpretation. I think that is fine, it is how things are often done when talking about the bible. Though here the level of charity seems to be very high, so I have come to respect everyone, even those who disagree with me for we are all one in Christ Jesus….or least I believe that.    

I tend not to us scripture that way; I feel that it is a waste of time and effort, since it is not possible to change anyone’s mind on just about anything.  However people do mature and change over the years.  Those who do not, their rigidity can isolate them in their surety and they in the end do little good to reach others.  We can fail to see others if we think we are in some way infallible in our interpretation of scripture and those who disagree with us simply do not have the Holy Spirit and perhaps they are on the way to hell.  How we love to send others to hell.  It says something about the human heart, its inner conflict to actually love as Christ tells us, yet to use hell as a way to dispose of those we don’t agree with.  I find it a horror if truth be told.  Christ Jesus came to save, yet often, Christians want to make hell as full as possible…though Christ told us not to judge for a reason, because we really, really suck at it. 

To me the term “Purgatory” represent a state of being and not some place of imprisonment.  ““The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence”--- John Paul II. 

God the Father in Christ Jesus is calling all to a loving relationship.  All relationships that have any real love in them, and even those with those we struggle with have a purgatorial aspect to them, they bring out our own inner wounds and struggles to be able to love and to be present with others.  The more self centered we are, for instance, the deeper the struggle to become free enough to have an actual loving contact with others.   This takes humility, the letting go of blame and a radical acceptance that we are not victims if we choose to understand that most of our problems are based on an inability to love.  So it is with our relationship with God the Father as revealed to us by Christ Jesus.

 

 

I believe that like Jacob we wrestle with God.  And like Jacob we are wounded when we do that by God, it causes us to limp.  We are made aware of our fragility when God slowly heals us of our self centeredness; we are lead to make choices that cause inner struggle and conflict with ourselves.  This is another form of purification and death to self…..this is another purgatorial state. 

 

 

In the Gospel of Luke Jesus says this:  Luke 3:16-17

 

John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

His winnowing fork is in His hand to thoroughly clear His threshing floor and to gather the wheat into His barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

This verse can be looked at on different levels.  One level is that in our own souls, the chaff will be burned away (be healed) by the infinite fire of God’s love, which is unquenchable.  St. Paul talks about that as well:

“For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw — each man’s work will become manifest; for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.  If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire”. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

So the experience of purgatory is in actuality Gods love continuing the work of salvation in the soul.  As we suffer in this life in the dying to self, so it continues if we do not trust or allow God’s love to fill us.  If we fear the letting go, it is grace that allows this to continue in purgatory

“The fire of loss is the fire of Hell. The saving fire is the purgative fire of Purgatory.  The purgative, saving fire brings a soul to full holiness; for “without holiness, no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).   This is why a soul who desires to dwell with God and glorify God desires to be purified before seeing the face of the Lord.   A soul burden with the residuals of sin is encumbered in its ability to glorify God.  Through His infinite mercy, God purges the residuals of sin with fire and lovingly draws the soul in.

 

Oh, how our souls should yearn for the fire of Christ’s scared heart, a heart that burns with love and mercy!  Oh, to be consumed and purified by the fires of His heart.” (https://toloveandtruth.net/2013/08/21/st-paul-on-purgatory/)

I don’t expect this to change any ones mind about the reality of purgatory.  However purgatory is still based on God’s saving grace.  Souls still being purified are saved by Jesus Christ, it is God who heals and brings his work to completion. 

I pray for the souls in purgatory because they are still on the way, as I pray for all my brothers and sisters in this world…..Christ calls us each to grow in love and compassion.  We are a royal priesthood and Christ Jesus also works in and though us.  We are his hands and his feet, his mouthpiece,  for we have died and it is Christ Jesus who continues his saving work in our souls, all we need do is to open our hearts and that will lead to praying and loving all others…..judgment is God’s alone, for he is infinite truth and love.  So I pray for the salvation of all and am at peace.  In judging others, I am only judging myself.
 

 

There is no such thing as purgatory.  There is nothing in scripture to back such a false doctrine up.  The Bible states, "It is appointed for once man to die after that the judgement"  

There is no place for souls to go between Heaven and Hell.  No place where people can pray you out of purgatory.  Jesus's work on the cross was a finished work.  You decided where you are going to spend eternity while you are in this physical body.  If you reject Jesus you will spend eternity in hell, if you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of your life that you will rest with Him in Heaven.  There is no stopping off place. It may sound harsh but people need to know the truth because it is so important, it is after all your soul we are speaking of.

Please don't post any more links.  Most likely it will be removed. You have to have permission first anyway.  Just letting you know.

Blessings, RustyAngeL

[markdohle]

37 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Mark I like what you wrote. I dont believe in a actual place of purgatory where departed spirits go to be cleanse from there sins. This life is where that is on going. Right now God our Father is training us in righteousness and he does that by discipline.  Which can be painful.  No one will be perfect in holiness in this life. Christ is our righteousness imparted to us by faith. HWhen we die we go into heaven and see God because we have christ righteousness.  Now if we have no personal righteousness we will not see God because this proves we are not children of God. All who are his children walk as he walked. Thanks brother I love your writings.  I know you know him.

Thank you, just sharing don't expect many here to agree with me ;-).

 

Peace
Mark

[markdohle]

24 minutes ago, RustyAngeL said:

There is no such thing as purgatory.  There is nothing in scripture to back such a false doctrine up.  The Bible states, "It is appointed for once man to die after that the judgement"  

There is no place for souls to go between Heaven and Hell.  No place where people can pray you out of purgatory.  Jesus's work on the cross was a finished work.  You decided where you are going to spend eternity while you are in this physical body.  If you reject Jesus you will spend eternity in hell, if you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of your life that you will rest with Him in Heaven.  There is no stopping off place. It may sound harsh but people need to know the truth because it is so important, it is after all your soul we are speaking of.

Please don't post any more links.  Most likely it will be removed. You have to have permission first anyway.  Just letting you know.

Blessings, RustyAngeL

Thank you, I understand your point, but I do believe the scriptures I posted do point to a time of inner healing, all healing is painful, or most of it.  I guess I will erase the links, thank you.

 

Peace
Mark

[missmuffet]

Why is purgatory such a popular topic on Worthy?

[FresnoJoe]

40 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Why is purgatory such a popular topic on Worthy?

Maybe Folks Really Want To Know

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:18-19

Just What Kind Of God

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

They Are Falling

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

In Love

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

With

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 5:9

[markdohle]

33 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Why is purgatory such a popular topic on Worthy?

Trying to bring in another perspective which is valid I believe. 

[FresnoJoe]

31 minutes ago, markdohle said:

but I do believe the scriptures I posted....
do point to a time of inner healing....

Amen Beloved~! Jesus Heals

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, Luke 4:18

And Hell Is.... Well, It's Hell

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 2 Peter 2:9

Love, Your Brother Joe

[FresnoJoe]

3 minutes ago, markdohle said:

Trying to bring in another perspective....
which is valid I believe....

Amen~!

Iron sharpeneth iron;
so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. Proverbs 27:17