markdohle Posted September 11, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 77 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 328 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Yowm said: This is as far as we go when Scripture is not the basis of our knowledge of things unseen...opinion. Dismissing Scripture as our ultimate authority due to the misuse by some is not the direction I would take. Paul's use of fire as a purifying process is what is going on, purgatory is merely a term meaning healing finished by God's love. The Trinity is not in the bible either, that came later. The 'Trinity' is nowhere mentioned, yet it is central to our faith because of long reflection in the Church..... Edited September 11, 2016 by markdohle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted September 11, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted September 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Wayne222 said: Mark I like what you wrote. I dont believe in a actual place of purgatory where departed spirits go to be cleanse from there sins. This life is where that is on going. Right now God our Father is training us in righteousness and he does that by discipline. Which can be painful. No one will be perfect in holiness in this life. Christ is our righteousness imparted to us by faith. HWhen we die we go into heaven and see God because we have christ righteousness. Now if we have no personal righteousness we will not see God because this proves we are not children of God. All who are his children walk as he walked. Thanks brother I love your writings. I know you know him. Your right Wayne, we do go to Heaven because of the righteousness and not because of our own merit. It is all about what He did on the cross for us, His finished work. Not everyone will go to Heaven however and that hurts my heart. My neighbor passed away two months ago. She knew I was a believer and she had many questions. I tried my best to answer them according to the Bible. I gave hear a NT and I shared Jesus with her and what He did for her. However she choose her own path and rejected Christ believing instead that she could do it on her own. I think of her everyday and I cringe at her eternity without Jesus. I"m so thankful for His Righteousness and that it is ours for the asking. And I'm thankful too that there is a place like Worthy that allows us as Christians to speak the Good News of Jesus Christ and be able to share that Good News with everyone. Blessings, RustyAngeL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdohle Posted September 11, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 77 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 328 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, RustyAngeL said: Your right Wayne, we do go to Heaven because of the righteousness and not because of our own merit. It is all about what He did on the cross for us, His finished work. Not everyone will go to Heaven however and that hurts my heart. My neighbor passed away two months ago. She knew I was a believer and she had many questions. I tried my best to answer them according to the Bible. I gave hear a NT and I shared Jesus with her and what He did for her. However she choose her own path and rejected Christ believing instead that she could do it on her own. I think of her everyday and I cringe at her eternity without Jesus. I"m so thankful for His Righteousness and that it is ours for the asking. And I'm thankful too that there is a place like Worthy that allows us as Christians to speak the Good News of Jesus Christ and be able to share that Good News with everyone. Blessings, RustyAngeL One thing I don't understand is how you know she is in hell? If Christ died for her, perhaps like St. Paul who had his Damascus experience is not as uncommon as we think. Like the many Muslims who are now having visions of Jesus, even if they have never even looked at a New Testament. I do believe that we equate God's love and mercy with our own understanding, yet Christ Jesus forgave all on the cross. I to believe that people go to hell, who, I have no idea. I am sure you prayed for her. Jesus talked about people being called at different times in their lives.....perhaps she was called as she was dying and then she would respond.....how....I don't know. I often pray for the dying, lifting them up to the Infinite compassion of Our Lord, deeper and more all encompassing that we ever understanding. Jesus is the Word, the creator of the universe, so I do not believe that he lets souls go as easy as many on this site seem to believe. You are a kind and loving man, I believe you were in her life for a reason..... Peace Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted September 11, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted September 11, 2016 1 minute ago, markdohle said: One thing I don't understand is how you know she is in hell? If Christ died for her, perhaps like St. Paul who had his Damascus experience is not as uncommon as we think. Like the many Muslims who are now having visions of Jesus, even if they have never even looked at a New Testament. I do believe that we equate God's love and mercy with our own understanding, yet Christ Jesus forgave all on the cross. I to believe that people go to hell, who, I have no idea. I am sure you prayed for her. Jesus talked about people being called at different times in their lives.....perhaps she was called as she was dying and then she would respond.....how....I don't know. I often pray for the dying, lifting them up to the Infinite compassion of Our Lord, deeper and more all encompassing that we ever understanding. Jesus is the Word, the creator of the universe, so I do not believe that he lets souls go as easy as many on this site seem to believe. You are a kind and loving man, I believe you were in her life for a reason..... Peace Mark She rejected all of the Bibles teachings and Jesus Himself. Jesus said," I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by Me." Jesus is our only way to Heaven. Untruth, cannot be part of His Kingdom. And by the way, I'm not a man, I am a woman. And yes I was in her life for a reason. As I said I shared the truth with her, she chose to reject it. That breaks my heart. Blessings, RustyAngeL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted September 11, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted September 11, 2016 9 minutes ago, Yowm said: To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Where is the loving 'process' that according to RCC theologians take thousands of years? That is excellent Yowm. This is RCC theology plain and simple, yet nothing to back it up. Not all will go to Heaven, very sad and heartbreaking, but truth never the less. That is why places like Worthy are so important, to get the truth out there and try and reach everyone that comes here with the Gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdohle Posted September 11, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 77 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 328 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 15 minutes ago, Yowm said: To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Where is the loving 'process' that according to RCC theologians take thousands of years? Thousands of years......the RCC makes no claims, what happens after death is between God and his beloved child. The scriptures tell us that God is love, it is a relationship, it is something that grows, like the mustard seed. There is no time after death, time is only here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted September 11, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2016 2 hours ago, RustyAngeL said: There is no place for souls to go between Heaven and Hell. No place where people can pray you out of purgatory. Precisely. This is a false teaching which takes a couple of passages in the NT and misinterprets and misapplies them. And 2 Maccabees is not Scripture, and simply mentions prayers for the dead (a Jewish superstition, not a Christian belief). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdohle Posted September 11, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 77 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 328 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Ezra said: Precisely. This is a false teaching which takes a couple of passages in the NT and misinterprets and misapplies them. And 2 Maccabees is not Scripture, and simply mentions prayers for the dead (a Jewish superstition, not a Christian belief). Actually both books of Maccabees are scripture. Catholic Bibles contain 46 books in the Old Testament, including seven (Tobit, Judith, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, and Baruch) which were part of an ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. These books were better known among Greek speaking Jews in the Mediterranean world around the time of Jesus. Today these seven books are variously referred to as the “apocryphal” or “deuterocanonical” books and are usually placed between the Old and New Testaments. At the time of the Protestant Reformation, Protestant leaders decided not to include these seven Greek books in the Old Testament (because they weren’t written in Hebrew like the rest of the Old Testament) while Catholic leaders decided to retain them since they were important to our Jewish ancestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigger398 Posted September 11, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 562 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,074 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 648 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/01/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1966 Share Posted September 11, 2016 4 hours ago, RustyAngeL said: There is no such thing as purgatory. There is nothing in scripture to back such a false doctrine up. The Bible states, "It is appointed for once man to die after that the judgement" Yes the bible clearly states that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted September 11, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2016 48 minutes ago, markdohle said: Actually both books of Maccabees are scripture. That is what Catholics claim. But Christians must go strictly by what the Lord Jesus Christ has revealed concerning the Holy Scriptures (Luke 24:25-27; 44-45). And what He has said is that only the 24 books of the Hebrew Tanakh may be regarded as Scripture. Their three divisions are The Law -- Torah (5 books), The Prophets -- Nebiim or Neviim (8 books) and The Psalms -- Kethubim or Ketuvim (11 books). These correspond exactly to the Protestant Old Testament. Even so, you will not find the word "Purgatory" either in Maccabees or anywhere else in the Bible. That should be conclusive. Please confirm with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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