Denominations

[Hoddie]

2 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

Hiya Hoodie!

Hi right back at ya GoldenEagle!

The Church was established by Jesus. Sure. But it is not the "Roman Catholic Church" or RCC.

If you haven't read my recent responce to Yowm, you might like to take a peek in reguards to Roman Catholic and Catholic Church thing.

Now as for the Church established by Jesus Christ, lets take a look.

The Church is One:

Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of competing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23-32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, and those doctrines must be identical to the doctrines taught by the apostles. This is unity of belief.

Although some individual Catholics dissent from officially-taught doctrines, the authentic teaching authority of the Church—the pope and the bishops united with him—has never changed any doctrine. Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply, but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church is Holy:

As I posted in the "Where is Mother Teresa" thread. By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn't mean each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 25:31-46). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments.

The Church is Catholic:

Jesus' Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19-20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Today the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19).

The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius's time, which means it may go back to the time of the apostles.

The Church is Apostolic:

The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (Acts 1:15-26, 2 Tim. 2:2).

These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary's special role, and much else—even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other church can make this claim.

Pillar Of Fire, Pillar Of Truth:

Man's ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man's effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Ex. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus' authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12-13). He keeps his promises. We can have complete confidence that his Church teaches the truth and nothing but the truth.

Just to name a few reasons due to space constraints

There are some Christians who are catholic. Yet not all catholics are Christian.

I like it, but I like to phrase it as... "Yes, Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are Catholic."

The RCC is not exactly unified either. Take Richard Rohr's teaching for example. There's a lot of man-made doctrine that has creeped into the RCC over the centuries.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, a Catholic apologist puts it this way....

"I have no doubt that Fr. Rohr is well intentioned. His compassion has helped many people. But, as with many of his (my) generation, he contends that the current time is so unique with insights unavailable to past gerations, that we can validly diminish teachings of the Magisterium. He favors the ambiguity of mystery over teachings that favor absolute truths. This of course, diminishes the very authority of the Church itself."

God bless,

GE

God Bless and Peace to you too!

[missmuffet]

Just now, Yowm said:

While  through the centuries of it's existence it has been the worst of the Church bodies when it comes to persecuting the Jews...oh yes, that's because they see themselves as the New Israel replacing those they called 'Christ killers'.

I have worked with many, many Catholics. There is only one person that I can say I respected the fruit that they displayed in their life.

[GoodFruit]

My personal opinion (everyone's got one) is that the Catholic church is going to one day be the apostate end times "one world" church and the Pope is certainly looking like the False Prophet more and more.  JMO

[missmuffet]

Just now, Yowm said:

No doubt there are many devout godly Catholics despite their religious system.

I have no doubt that they believe in the same Jesus Christ that is in the Bible. Unlike the Mormons and the JW's and a few other cult religions.

[missmuffet]

Just now, GoodFruit said:

My personal opinion (everyone's got one) is that the Catholic church is going to one day be the apostate end times "one world" church and the Pope is certainly looking like the False Prophet more and more.  JMO

That is very possible. And the Pope the False Prophet? Many believe that. Time will tell.

[Woman_At_The_Well]

King James Bible Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

Good works will certainly do nothing for us.
 

[Zemke]

On 9/15/2016 at 1:22 PM, GoodFruit said:

I was curious to know what faith denomination those you here are.  I just thought it would be interesting to see all the different backgrounds y’all come from.  Please do not misunderstand; I’m by no means trying to be judgmental about your personal beliefs.  I have been reading a lot of posts from different people and it just got me to wondering what your doctrinal backgrounds are to help me get a better grasp on the lens thru which you view scripture.  A lot of times, people interpret scriptures based upon a particular denomination’s teachings. 

 

I’m not promoting one denomination over another but reading posts from multiple people with differing belief concepts can be confusing to me.  Sometimes I’d just like to know where someone’s particular thought/belief/interpretation originates.

 

Myself, I was raised in the Lutheran faith, Missouri Synod, which is on the conservative end of the spectrum (Wisconsin Synod is ultra-conservative, ELCA is ultra-liberal).  However, as I have aged and matured in my faith, I am not totally sold on the LCMS doctrine and I have some serious issues with some (not all) of it, particularly infant baptism and that baptism saves (although it is not taught outright, it is implied).  A couple years ago I decided to start “church shopping” after having a heavy heart about the LCMS teachings and went to a couple non-denominational churches, which didn’t have any substance and were more about socializing than teaching the truth of God’s word.  I then started attending a Bible Church that has been in my tiny little town for 125 years.  On a good day, there might be a total of 30 people in attendance but the teaching is solid truth right out of the Bible.  I do still attend the Lutheran church once or twice a month out of respect for my parents.  My mother is a very active member of the church and it is her joy to have her children worshipping with her.  As long as she is alive, I will honor her and not bring any grief or hurt to her by completely walking away from my church roots.  Even if I don’t completely agree with the doctrine.

 

My mother is also devout Missouri Synod and sitting with her in worship, especially with much family on holidays, blesses her much. My Grandfather was a pastor in the farm country south of the Twin Cities. 

I've recently learned the people who formed the  Missouri Synod were remnant believers influenced from the Piety movement that started a hundred years or so after the reformation. Didn't know the background of conservative Lutheran thought had a background of splits over battles between doctrine/experience/cold lifelessness, the same things we battle over today. Nothing new I guess. 

Much of what we see today with the number of denominations and denominational splitting has much to do with believers wanting something more, deeper in meaning, real. And much of what we who left the Lutheran Church over is what the fore runners of the Missouri Synod in America left their Lutheran churches over earlier in Europe. I didn't know some early movements of charasmatic type experience moving away from doctrine happened hundreds of years ago in Lutheran circles from Lutherans looking for a deeper Godly life splitting from cold lifeless Lutheran congregations.

I'm just starting to learn some of this history and will be a great conversation with my mom. We have better conversations the more I learn and realize how much she knows and I don't. When I was young and got saved I thought my mom was simply religious and didn't know much. Foolish youthfulness. 

It seems the churches that have a humility and maintain a relationship with God by the Spirit, acknowledge the importance of doctrine and experience. And have what I've witnessed in my mothers life, piety. An application of doctrine in ones life leading to a testimony of experience that is alive and vital in the power of God. (my definition)

Anyway to answer your original question I've been attending an Anabaptist congregation for a little while. They are very loving and open to the community and realize the closed off stigma that has grown, and justified, but do not compromise their doctrinal beliefs for social favor. It's been more than just interesting. And the four part harmony, well, how can one not like good doctrine sung like that.

 

 

[other one]

6 hours ago, eileenhat said:

Yes.

You come to Jesus through Church structure.  You are immature of the spirit at that juncture.  

"child" as in immature (not as an age).  

that is not the case with a lot of people.     I knew about Jesus for about 30 years before I really came to him.....     and that was butt naked in our shower at home while dealing with two demons....         I know people who have come to Jesus while out in nature talking with born again friends....   and one who had been in a fight in a local bar....

[other one]

3 hours ago, eileenhat said:

Why would an apostle need to learn from a pastor?

 

I don't believe anyone has matured to the point that they can't learn from other people.      And for that matter mature Christians also go to church to watch over and help other people not as mature as they...         More and more as the world goes to hell in a hand basket and persecution here in the US gets worse, we need to help each other.....           This morning we took up an offering for one of our members who was in a serious wreck last month and is unable to work for a while....   and he's self employed with no paid vacation.

[other one]

6 hours ago, eileenhat said:

I did.

don't place yourself as the norm then for most of the people I know that didn't grow up in the church didn't go to church to find God......   God found them in their daily lives from people around them.