Free Will?

[Deez131]

We simply can't tell the lost that they are loved by God.  Because if they aren't of the "elect" that was predetermined to salvation, they are forever *HATED* by God and to tell them that God loves them is simply cruel and a big lie.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But how do you know who is going to be saved and who isn't? We, as humans can't determine who will be saved and who won't. It's a command of God to preach His word. If that person we're talking to is not going to be saved, then they aren't going to be saved. You don't know how or when God will use you to bring His word to people. I just know we're supposed to. That's good enough for me.

[Khristeeanos]

We simply can't tell the lost that they are loved by God.

[Trinity]

Deez131, you believe God hates them the non-elect, but you don't know who he hates right so you witness to all people?

Because God would had have to hate them because they weren't chosen.

[Deez131]

Regarding Romans 9 and the question of whether Paul is talking about corporate (the nation of Israel) or individual salvation

[Trinity]

We simply can't tell the lost that they are loved by God.

[Deez131]

Deez131, you believe God hates them the non-elect, but you don't know who he hates right so you witness to all people?

Because God would had have to hate them because they weren't chosen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll witness to anyone using the same passage anyone else would use. Whosoever believes is just as safe to use from my point of view. The whole Bible is filled with different people witnessing. I'm not going to change my technique just because I believe that God is the one who saves. You use the exact same Bible and same phrases.

[Deez131]

How then are we to witness?

"Uh, yea. I want to find out if God loves you or hates you so tell me if you want to believe in predetermined salvation."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think you'll be very useful that way.

[Deez131]

We simply can't tell the lost that they are loved by God.

[Khristeeanos]

How then are we to witness?

"Uh, yea. I want to find out if God loves you or hates you so tell me if you want to believe in predetermined salvation."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think you'll be very useful that way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea, probabaly not.

I was just being silly, that is all.

But I don't see how predetermined salvation is consistant with an all-loving God.

[Abigailwc]

This is a good subject and it has puzzled me as well.

Romans 3:10,12

10/As it is written, There is none righteous, no, NOT ONE.... 12/They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, NOT ONE.

Matthew 22:14

For many are called, but few are CHOSEN.

John 15:16,19

16/You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.....19/If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

All these verses say that it is God who has chosen us, we have not. It is God who has put faith in our heart to believe in Him, who has put the desire in our heart to love Him and trust Him.

If God did not "interfere", we would all be going to hell because we, by our own, are unable to love Him.

So why did He choose some and not others? I do not know. The only free will I see is when we come on our knees and ask Him for forgiveness and accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

My son tells me that God has plans and will bring them to fruition, no matter what he does. So, now that he is saved (accepted the Lord because of fear to go to hell) he does not have to do a thing (read the Bible, live according to God's will, go to church...), God's will will prevail. This has to do with God's will and our will.

Now, how would you respond to somebody, like my son, who believes that no matter what, God's will is the final authority and our will does not amount to anything?