The Fossil Record God Left For Us, Not to Darwinists

[SavedOnebyGrace]

4 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Sure, but why introduce a theory of a gap if there is no evidence in the bible, or in geology, that there was two sets of life.   It's all conjecture, possibly based on the fact that early signs of human existence are minimal. So Christians feel the need to have a gap to explain why there were no early humans.    I believe human fossils were minimal because most of the pre-flood landscape was too swampy for large human populations. The human population was mainly in Siberia, which was a temperate highland at the time more likely to have mammals and birds unlike the swampy habitats full of amphibians and mega-insects. 

So if one is to look for early human habitation and early mammals it makes sense to look for a vast highland, isolated from the rest of the world. Siberia. That region is now covered in volcanic rock ,  the human cities are difficult to find. 

You really don't understand the Gap Theory.  The evidence is in the Bible if you look for it.  The Gap Theory would not necessarily be seen in the geological record.  The Lucifer Flood would only affect Lucifer and his fallen angels and what they perverted and contaminated on Earth to cause God to judge these immortal beings.  What gap are you looking for?  A gap in time?  It's not there.  A gap in the fossil record?  Why do you even look for that?  You need to study the Gap Theory in all its variations to understand what it's all about.

Start here: In The Beginnings by Steven Dill

Continue here: The Bible, Genesis and Geology by Gaines R. Johnson

What most people including scholars miss is that the Gap Theory predates Jesus.  Read also the works of G. H. Pember and Finis Jennings Dake for additional insight.  I found Dake's KJV Study Bible turned me from an agnostic to a born-again, Holy Spirit filled Christian.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Saved.One.by.Grace

[ARGOSY]

On 11/4/2016 at 4:24 PM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

You really don't understand the Gap Theory.  The evidence is in the Bible if you look for it.  The Gap Theory would not necessarily be seen in the geological record.  The Lucifer Flood would only affect Lucifer and his fallen angels and what they perverted and contaminated on Earth to cause God to judge these immortal beings.  What gap are you looking for?  A gap in time?  It's not there.  A gap in the fossil record?  Why do you even look for that?  You need to study the Gap Theory in all its variations to understand what it's all about.

Start here: In The Beginnings by Steven Dill

Continue here: The Bible, Genesis and Geology by Gaines R. Johnson

What most people including scholars miss is that the Gap Theory predates Jesus.  Read also the works of G. H. Pember and Finis Jennings Dake for additional insight.  I found Dake's KJV Study Bible turned me from an agnostic to a born-again, Holy Spirit filled Christian.

I'm not going to do all that research on a concept I haven't even seen yet in the bible. I'm not going to follow up on every person's strange theories. If you would like me or any other readers to do so, then give one or two good verses in the bible that hint at the concept of a Gap theory.   Hazard's verses and salty's verses do no such thing.  Please give me your best one or two bible verses that even hint at a gap.

 

Genesis 1:1-3 does not hint at two biological creations.  It just shows an empty earth of indefinite time period, followed by creation week. This is what I believe.

[hmbld]

On November 4, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

What most people including scholars miss is that the Gap Theory predates Jesus. 

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

How can anything predate Jesus?

[HAZARD]

46 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

How can anything predate Jesus?

God and the Word had no beginning, Jesus had a beginning.

Gen. 1;1. It does not read, "Six thousand years ago Was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God?"

So, "In the beginning,"  . . . . When was that?

John 1:1, "In the beginning Was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."  . . . . When was that?  . . . . Was it 6,OOO years ago? They have no beginning so what have they been doing since eternity past?

John 1:2, The same was in the beginning with God. 

John 1:3, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." . . . Were all things made by Him 6,OOO years ago? 

We can roughly know when Jesus had a beginning.

John 1:14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The same words are spoken in Genesis 1:1 as in John 1:1-3.

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And:

John 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
V. 2, The same was in the beginning with God.
V. 3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Think about it, let it sink in!

 

[HAZARD]

6 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

I'm not going to do all that research on a concept I haven't even seen yet in the bible. I'm not going to follow up on every person's strange theories. If you would like me or any other readers to do so, then give one or two good verses in the bible that hint at the concept of a Gap theory.   Hazard's verses and salty's verses do no such thing.  Please give me your best one or two bible verses that even hint at a gap.

 

Genesis 1:1-3 does not hint at two biological creations.  It just shows an empty earth of indefinite time period, followed by creation week. This is what I believe.

Lazy boys answer. Unless one does a little of this, one never learns much.

 John 5:39,Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

1. God did not create the earth, “without form, and void.”
Instead, the Pre-Adamic earth “became without form, and void” as a result of God’s judgment and wrath upon Lucifer's sin and rebellion.

2. Numerous Hebrew scholars have confirmed that Genesis 1:2 is better translated, “But, the earth became without form, and void.”

3. The Pre-Adamic world was destroyed by a global flood accompanied by global darkness. That was why there was no dry land and darkness covered the face of the deep in Genesis 1:2.

4. The Ruin-Restoration of the earth was a foreshadow of what would happen to Adam's fallen race: Judgment and death for sin, and then a restoration and new birth for those who receive the light of Christ. It reveals the Gospel message to all people, in all nations, for all times.

5.The book logically resolves the apparent discrepancy between the order in which the Bible says things were created, with the order in which science says they appeared. Yet it also reveals that the Restoration Theory was not created to harmonize the Bible with the Theory of Evolution. It has been believed and defended by theologians for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

Link:

http://www.gaptheoryofcreation.com/in_the_beginnings_004.htm

[ARGOSY]

7 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Lazy boys answer. Unless one does a little of this, one never learns much.

 John 5:39,Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

1. God did not create the earth, “without form, and void.”
Instead, the Pre-Adamic earth “became without form, and void” as a result of God’s judgment and wrath upon Lucifer's sin and rebellion.

2. Numerous Hebrew scholars have confirmed that Genesis 1:2 is better translated, “But, the earth became without form, and void.”

3. The Pre-Adamic world was destroyed by a global flood accompanied by global darkness. That was why there was no dry land and darkness covered the face of the deep in Genesis 1:2.

4. The Ruin-Restoration of the earth was a foreshadow of what would happen to Adam's fallen race: Judgment and death for sin, and then a restoration and new birth for those who receive the light of Christ. It reveals the Gospel message to all people, in all nations, for all times.

5.The book logically resolves the apparent discrepancy between the order in which the Bible says things were created, with the order in which science says they appeared. Yet it also reveals that the Restoration Theory was not created to harmonize the Bible with the Theory of Evolution. It has been believed and defended by theologians for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

Link:

http://www.gaptheoryofcreation.com/in_the_beginnings_004.htm

You say lazy boy answer. If you have any verse that supports your position, kindly post it. I read some of those verses you posted earlier and they do not support your position. Any good ones? 

1)  You say God did not create the earth  'without form and void" . Where is your evidence for this?  The Hebrew can mean an empty wasteland. Void means empty. Obviously it was empty before biological creation. Otherwise if he created the creatures first, they would be floating around space and dying there. So the empty earth kinda has to come first, no?

2) Yes it is possible to interpret the Hebrew that way, but it is not the only way to interpret the Hebrew. The word is "hayah" which I agree can mean "became" but also can mean "was established" or "remained" or "appeared".  Is there any reason to insist your narrow view is more correct than the wider view?

3) and 4)  You need some evidence for your statements

5) I don't see any discrepancy, therefore I don't need a book to resolve any discrepancy.  Sure YECs would have discrepancies, where did the light come from. Why was the earth mentioned in verse 1, when it was only created later in creation week. There are simple biblical answers for these.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HAZARD]

10 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

You say lazy boy answer. If you have any verse that supports your position, kindly post it. I read some of those verses you posted earlier and they do not support your position. Any good ones? 

1)  You say God did not create the earth  'without form and void" . Where is your evidence for this?  The Hebrew can mean an empty wasteland. Void means empty. Obviously it was empty before biological creation. Otherwise if he created the creatures first, they would be floating around space and dying there. So the empty earth kinda has to come first, no?

2) Yes it is possible to interpret the Hebrew that way, but it is not the only way to interpret the Hebrew. The word is "hayah" which I agree can mean "became" but also can mean "was established" or "remained" or "appeared".  Is there any reason to insist your narrow view is more correct than the wider view?

3) and 4)  You need some evidence for your statements

5) I don't see any discrepancy, therefore I don't need a book to resolve any discrepancy.  Sure YECs would have discrepancies, where did the light come from. Why was the earth mentioned in verse 1, when it was only created later in creation week. There are simple biblical answers for these.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gen 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth.

When God originally, some time in the distant past laid the corner stone of the earth, when He laid the foundations of the Earth and fastened them, long before it was made empty, and void, and covered with water and darkness, the morning stars and all the sons of God shouted for joy. 

Do you believe the morning stars and the angels, sons of God would joyfully shout over a destroyed, flooded, empty and void dark Earth? 

Job 38: 4, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
V. 5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
V. 6, Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
V. 7, When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

God gives a summary of all the work He has done on the “heavens and the earth and all the hosts of them.”  This then must include the creation of the heavens and earth as stated in Genesis 1:1. When we look out at the stars through giant telescopes we discover that many of the far distant galaxies are millions, if not billions, of light years away. Admittedly, there is no disputing the scientific evidence for this. There is absolutely no need to get all excited and try to explain away the evidence, as do some Young Earth Creationists, who come up with some extravagant fairy tales in an attempt to explain the evidence in the stars.  Admittedly, not even the Young Earth Creationists themselves are really satisfied with the explanation, “this is simply the way God created the universe that it should merely look like it is millions and billions of years old.”

 

Isiah 45:18, For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

God's original creation of the Earth was not without form and void, covered in water and in darkness, God created it to be inhabited. It was so beautiful the angels, sons of God shouted for joy!

[ARGOSY]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

Gen 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth.

When God originally, some time in the distant past laid the corner stone of the earth, when He laid the foundations of the Earth and fastened them, long before it was made empty, and void, and covered with water and darkness, the morning stars and all the sons of God shouted for joy. 

Do you believe the morning stars and the angels, sons of God would joyfully shout over a destroyed, flooded, empty and void dark Earth? 

Job 38: 4, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
V. 5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
V. 6, Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
V. 7, When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

God gives a summary of all the work He has done on the “heavens and the earth and all the hosts of them.”  This then must include the creation of the heavens and earth as stated in Genesis 1:1. When we look out at the stars through giant telescopes we discover that many of the far distant galaxies are millions, if not billions, of light years away. Admittedly, there is no disputing the scientific evidence for this. There is absolutely no need to get all excited and try to explain away the evidence, as do some Young Earth Creationists, who come up with some extravagant fairy tales in an attempt to explain the evidence in the stars.  Admittedly, not even the Young Earth Creationists themselves are really satisfied with the explanation, “this is simply the way God created the universe that it should merely look like it is millions and billions of years old.”

 

Isiah 45:18, For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

God's original creation of the Earth was not without form and void, covered in water and in darkness, God created it to be inhabited. It was so beautiful the angels, sons of God shouted for joy!

I see no problem with the angels celebrating an empty formless earth ready for light and life. The earth is one of God's creations , one with a great destiny, this is a good reason to celebrate. 

[HAZARD]

5 minutes ago, ARGOSY said:

I see no problem with the angels celebrating an empty formless earth ready for light and life. The earth is one of God's creations , one with a great destiny, this is a good reason to celebrate. 

God created the heaven and the Earth  in Gen. 1: 1

God did all this in Gen. 1: 1 which He spoke to Job about and you ignore;

Job 38: 4, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
V. 5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
V. 6, Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
V. 7, When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

THEN, its written, in Gen. 1:  2, And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.  God does not do anything in vain. Only someone who does not understand the perfection of God and all He does and how He does things would believe He would want to create something in vain, void covered in water and in darkness.

[ARGOSY]

4 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

God created the heaven and the Earth  in Gen. 1: 1

God did all this in Gen. 1: 1 which He spoke to Job about and you ignore;

Job 38: 4, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
V. 5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
V. 6, Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
V. 7, When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

THEN, its written, in Gen. 1:  2, And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.  God does not do anything in vain. Only someone who does not understand the perfection of God and all He does and how He does things would believe He would want to create something in vain, void covered in water and in darkness.

 

I understand your point, but it is very vague evidence for a pre-Adamic creation.   

tohuw  means wilderness. Or nothingness.

  bohuw means emptiness

Do you believe there is no created place in the universe that is an empty wilderness.   I see the beauty of creation in deserts and mountain ranges etc.   I don't agree with your point.  An empty wilderness is  good ... especially when it was created for the purpose of seeding life.   Your point has some sense to it, but is too subjective to prove an entire pre-Adamic creation.