kwikphilly Posted October 9, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,147 Content Per Day: 4.60 Reputation: 27,843 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2016 Quote But that 'whosoever' coin is still in the air. God may ordain all things but he does it in such a way to keep our responsibility of choice intact. Otherwise how can He judge us if we are not responsible for the choices we make? Yown EXACTLY!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christiang Posted October 9, 2016 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 65 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Yowm said: But that 'whosoever' coin is still in the air. God may ordain all things but he does it in such a way to keep our responsibility of choice intact. Otherwise how can He judge us if we are not responsible for the choices we make? Because he will judge man by the choices he appointed them to make. And as such, by those choices that God has appointed them to make, can he then demonstrate his wrath and punishment of choices he has deemed evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.74 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2016 God knows before we are born who will come to a saving born again faith in Jesus Christ and who will go to heaven. Question: "What is predestination? Is predestination biblical?" Answer: Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically. The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determine beforehand,” “ordain,” “to decide upon ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved. The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair. Why would God choose certain individuals and not others? The important thing to remember is that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23), and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some. If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!” https://gotquestions.org/predestination.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted October 9, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2016 17 minutes ago, missmuffet said: God knows before we are born who will come to a saving born again faith in Jesus Christ and who will go to heaven. Question: "What is predestination? Is predestination biblical?" Answer: Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically. The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determine beforehand,” “ordain,” “to decide upon ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved. The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair. Why would God choose certain individuals and not others? The important thing to remember is that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23), and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some. If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!” https://gotquestions.org/predestination.html Missmuffet, do you believe in pre- destination? I didn't think you were Calvinist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.74 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2016 10 minutes ago, angels4u said: Missmuffet, do you believe in pre- destination? I didn't think you were Calvinist? It does not necessarily have to be Calvinist. "If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 minute ago, missmuffet said: It does not necessarily have to be Calvinist. "If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!” God does not predestine who will be saved. The use of "predestine" only refers to God's plan for people AFTER they are saved. The Bible never uses predestination to describe God choosing who will or will not be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.74 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: God does not predestine who will be saved. The use of "predestine" only refers to God's plan for people AFTER they are saved. The Bible never uses predestination to describe God choosing who will or will not be saved. Do you think God knows who will be saved and go to heaven before we are born? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 minute ago, missmuffet said: Do you think God knows who will be saved and go to heaven before we are born? Sure. But knowing what will happen and predestining it happen are two completely different things. The Bible says in 1 Peter 3:9 that God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.74 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2016 Just now, shiloh357 said: Sure. But knowing what will happen and predestining it happen are two completely different things. The Bible says in 1 Peter 3:9 that God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. I do not believe that God is going to pick who will be saved and who will not be saved. That is our free will. That is our choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I would also point out that the OP is teaching the same false doctrine I am dealing with in the Soap Box Forum. The notion that God has predestined or predetermined every action or event makes God responsible for rapes, murders, child molestation, terrorism, etc. The idea that God is behind sin, that God is the author of sin is not only blasphemous but heretical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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