Riccardo Posted October 30, 2016 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 4 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 281 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 167 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/25/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2016 Dear Breaklite, you are correct the Sabbath still stands. The fact that the use of Col 2:16-19 is used to support the Sabbath done away with just shows the lack of understanding & knowledge on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2016 3 hours ago, RobertS said: Paul wrote this in Colossians: " Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God. " (Colossians 2:16-19, NASB, emphasis mine) and this: "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living." (Romans 14:5-9, NASB, emphasis mine) Paul was "a Pharisee among Pharisees", which means he would not have taken the Decalogue lightly. Yet, he wrote these passages in Scripture, inspired by the Lord. And if we want even further material on this situation, the Lord Himself spoke on this during His time on Earth: "At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat. But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath.” But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions, how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone? Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent? But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here. But if you had known what this means, ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12:1-8, NASB, emphasis mine) I have responded to similar posts previously just on the least few pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2016 3 hours ago, shiloh357 said: You need to show that the Sabbath day is required under the New Covenant. Why? I am not the one proposing that there has been a change in the law, it is Sunday observers. The onus is on Sunday observers to show that the commandments of God are not to be obeyed by those under the new covenant. The onus is on Sunday observers to explain why they have chosen to alter the original custom of the early church to observe Sabbath as Jesus did. The onus is on Sunday observers to explain why Jesus example is not good enough for them that they have established an alternative day to what God's people had observed and were told to remember for thousands of years. My contention is that once God declares a day holy, sacred, sanctified, then that day stays holy, sacred, and sanctified until such time He decides to declare it otherwise. Rather than being the exception to the rule, Christians ought to be demonstrating their allegiance to the authority of God, as opposed to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, RustyAngeL said: Amen. People that are so tied to the law are miserable people indeed. I have a friend who believes that Saturday is the only right day to worship. She even believes we will be "Required" to worship in Heaven on Saturday. She is tied to some the dietary laws as well. Very sad. No time for joy, just for law, law, law. Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. I agree that those who focus constantly on the law can be among the most miserable people of the planet. As Christian we all I think, or at least most of us agree, that no amount of "law-keeping" can justify us, and much of their misery arises as they realize their utmost inability to accomplish their purpose, but are unwilling to believe or they cannot recognize that we are saved by grace alone. Period. Saturday is not the only 'right' day to worship. We ought to worship every day, including both the 1st and the 7th days, and every day in between. That said however, the 7th day, the only true Sabbath of the Bible, is a day still blessed, made holy, and sanctified by the word of God. The question is, what do we as Christians do with that day. Ignore it? Change it? Substitute it with a day of our own devising? Pretend it doesn't matter? Or shall we, because we love God, keep His commandment and "remember"? Edited October 31, 2016 by brakelite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2016 4 hours ago, BacKaran said: We ignore nothing but trust and obey God and live by Jesus example as we live out the time we have left in this fallen world. Regeneration of a soul shows fruit aka changes in behavior. my old self, and I was under false beliefs of the rcc, that I could sin all week cuz confession time was every Friday. (No one need to respond from the rcc, this is my experience and that of many ex rccers.....) Now I know the Truth as my heart convicts me the second I sin and I still and ask for forgiveness immediately. I obey God's commands as best I can with guidance, help and discernment on this fallen earth but I am compelled by the Holy Spirit in love to not sin. Since I'm still born with the sin nature, I will still sin. I'm already redeemed by Jesus blood, the bible tells me He's forgiven all my sins, past, present and future. Completely forgiven, not just for given until next Friday. The difference is now that I am born again, I no longer crave or desire things of this world. I am compelled to live like Christ and even though I may fail, He's assured me of my place in haven and that is The Good News for those who believe!? Excellent post. I also grew up under the teachings and education system of the RCC til Jesus in His grace and mercy opened my eyes to His truth. When He says "come out of her My people", He means just that...and to come all the way out. Did you know that it was the RCC who established Sunday as a doctrine and dogma of the Christian faith and persecuted Christians who continued to observe Sabbath, following Jesus' and the apostle's example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted October 31, 2016 4 hours ago, BacKaran said: Rusty angel, I've witnessed the truth to my aunt, 7 th day Adventist, and I still love her and we're have had some intense debates but she's still blinded by deceit so all I can do is pray for her. People who are not ready to change will not change, no matter how many times the Truth has been given but... one day... There is still hope and it's in Christ, amen.? She has been deceived. She was born and raised in a Baptist home, her parents were missionaries. But she has fallen for this lock, stock and barrel. your right Karan prayer is the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2016 4 minutes ago, RustyAngeL said: She has been deceived. She was born and raised in a Baptist home, her parents were missionaries. But she has fallen for this lock, stock and barrel. your right Karan prayer is the only way. How will your prayer go, and to whom will you pray? The Lord of the Sabbath who established it, or the lord of the Sunday who changed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 2 hours ago, brakelite said: Why? I am not the one proposing that there has been a change in the law, it is Sunday observers. The onus is on Sunday observers to show that the commandments of God are not to be obeyed by those under the new covenant. The onus is on Sunday observers to explain why they have chosen to alter the original custom of the early church to observe Sabbath as Jesus did. The onus is on Sunday observers to explain why Jesus example is not good enough for them that they have established an alternative day to what God's people had observed and were told to remember for thousands of years. My contention is that once God declares a day holy, sacred, sanctified, then that day stays holy, sacred, and sanctified until such time He decides to declare it otherwise. Rather than being the exception to the rule, Christians ought to be demonstrating their allegiance to the authority of God, as opposed to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. My position isn't that the law changed. I don't think any change from the Sabbath to Sunday was ever made. My contention is that Jesus is the Sabbath. The Sabbath day was a picture of Jesus. The Sabbath is still on Friday evening to Saturday evening. My contention is that under the NT economy, we are not required to observe the Sabbath day. We have something better. We have Jesus. I have entered into God's rest through Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2016 1 hour ago, shiloh357 said: My position isn't that the law changed. I don't think any change from the Sabbath to Sunday was ever made. My contention is that Jesus is the Sabbath. The Sabbath day was a picture of Jesus. The Sabbath is still on Friday evening to Saturday evening. My contention is that under the NT economy, we are not required to observe the Sabbath day. We have something better. We have Jesus. I have entered into God's rest through Jesus. It may come as a surprise for you to know that Sabbath keepers have also. They choose to observe the Sabbath as a sign of that rest they have in Christ. Even to demonstrating it physically by abstaining from work that day, demonstrating their faith and rest in God as Provider and Sanctifier. Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. Jesus did not come to replace the Sabbath. He came to give it deeper meaning. Isaiah 58:13 ¶ If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it Isaiah 58 has long been considered a message to the church of the NT, and not solely to the Jewish people. There is a blessing in embracing it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, brakelite said: It may come as a surprise for you to know that Sabbath keepers have also. They choose to observe the Sabbath as a sign of that rest they have in Christ. Even to demonstrating it physically by abstaining from work that day, demonstrating their faith and rest in God as Provider and Sanctifier. Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. Jesus did not come to replace the Sabbath. He came to give it deeper meaning. Isaiah 58:13 ¶ If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it Isaiah 58 has long been considered a message to the church of the NT, and not solely to the Jewish people. There is a blessing in embracing it all. So what do think the consequences will be for Christians who do not keep the Sabbath day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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