WilliamL Posted October 30, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,117 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 10/28/2016 at 3:45 PM, Ezra said: On 10/28/2016 at 3:10 PM, The_Patriot2016 said: They are right, the government has no right to own land like that, and the government has been slowly encroaching on peoples rights more so every year. Absolutely correct. And the civil disobedience of these people is commendable. It is good to see that they were vindicated and cleared. US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 1: Congress shall have power to... [paragraph 17] exercise exclusive Legislation...over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be ... In part, the defendants argued in court that the area in question was established in violation of the restrictions of this Constitutional provision, and the jury agree apparently with them. The Feds had no constitutional authority to operate there in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchmouse Posted October 30, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,216 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 1,014 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/1958 Share Posted October 30, 2016 3 hours ago, WilliamL said: As far as I remember, the government employees were not hindered from going to work by the demonstrators, but rather by the government. As far as not shooting anyone, it was the government that assassinated the most respected leader of the group via a hidden sniper, and the critical evidence about the circumstances of that shooting have been concealed by the government. Look you guys can paint this anyway you wish. All I know is that we all have to answer for our own deeds to our creator. These people stayed armed at a place where they weren't welcomed to be and it provided a threat to the public and it was the public that the police kept away from the area. If you guys want to sympathetic anyone, you really need to sympathies with everyone including those who were called to protect the peace. If not then this is nothing more than a partisan project that I will gladly remove myself from. Thank you and God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted October 30, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted October 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Churchmouse said: Look you guys can paint this anyway you wish. All I know is that we all have to answer for our own deeds to our creator. These people stayed armed at a place where they weren't welcomed to be and it provided a threat to the public and it was the public that the police kept away from the area. If you guys want to sympathetic anyone, you really need to sympathies with everyone including those who were called to protect the peace. If not then this is nothing more than a partisan project that I will gladly remove myself from. Thank you and God bless. So, they wernt welcome on so called public land? They were there helping a local from government overreach. They did not shoot at anyone. They did not prevent anyone from going to work. They did not threaten or harm the locals in any way. The only people who posed a threat to anyone were the trigger happy feds who shot an innocent man who was surrendering. We live in a country, where we have a right to peacefully protest. You don't have to agree with the protest but we have the right to do so. Regardless of how many guns they had, they were indeed protesting peacefully. No businesses were burned down. No cops were injured. It has nothing to do with painting anything in a "good light" its just presenting the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted October 30, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,117 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Churchmouse said: Look you guys can paint this anyway you wish. All you have been doing is representing the point of view of the government, the corporate media, and the corporate church. Clearly, you have spent no time at all learning about the real constitutional issues involved. Fortunately, the JURY, who listened to the evidence presented by the government and by the defense over 5 weeks -- nearly all of which evidence the media has studiously ignored, assuring you stay ignorant about it-- chose to uphold the Constitution, not public opinion. Edited October 30, 2016 by WilliamL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchmouse Posted October 30, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,216 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 1,014 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/1958 Share Posted October 30, 2016 1 hour ago, WilliamL said: All you have been doing is representing the point of view of the government, the corporate media, and the corporate church. Clearly, you have spent no time at all learning about the real constitutional issues involved. Fortunately, the JURY, who listened to the evidence presented by the government and by the defense over 5 weeks -- nearly all of which evidence the media has studiously ignored, assuring you stay ignorant about it-- chose to uphold the Constitution, not public opinion. I've been representing my own feelings towards people who go out of their way to bring publicity to themselves by bring guns into a place where they were not asked to come. This wasn't Ruby Ridge. This wasn't the Branch Dividians. They weren't protecting their homes they went into someone else s back yard to to start some crap with the government. Nothing more, nothing else. Please don't drag me down into this quagmire of partisan ideology that only honors one side of the tern, Patriot. You can dance around with this Ideology all you want to and spend as much time fighting for the rights the government gave you in the first place. What the government givith, the government takith away. The government, on the other hand can't touch what God has given us and that's who I look to for my priorities. We don't have any rights in this country. We have the grace of God and the luck of not yet appearing in the crosshairs of those powerful enough to make you go poof. You want to hang yourself on this thread, so be it. this country, along with the rest of the world will end on the day of judgement and as far as I'm concerned it can all go right now, because I am more than ready to not have to listen to people shake their fist in the air demanding their piece of a corrupt world. If that's what trips your trigger, have all the fun in the world. Give me your address and I'll send you all the paper you can post up to fight your own personal good fight with uncle SAM. .. I don't take sides with this crap. I do take issues with the fact that they went to somewhere other than their own community and did so, armed to the teeth as if they were looking for the trouble they brought on themselves. People protest all the time, but how many do you see barricading themselves on someone else property in another community. This was not The Alamo, they weren't fighting for anything. They came to make a name for themselves and their selves alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted October 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Churchmouse said: I've been representing my own feelings towards people who go out of their way to bring publicity to themselves by bring guns into a place where they were not asked to come. This wasn't Ruby Ridge. This wasn't the Branch Dividians. They weren't protecting their homes they went into someone else s back yard to to start some crap with the government. Nothing more, nothing else. Please don't drag me down into this quagmire of partisan ideology that only honors one side of the tern, Patriot. You can dance around with this Ideology all you want to and spend as much time fighting for the rights the government gave you in the first place. What the government givith, the government takith away. The government, on the other hand can't touch what God has given us and that's who I look to for my priorities. We don't have any rights in this country. We have the grace of God and the luck of not yet appearing in the crosshairs of those powerful enough to make you go poof. You want to hang yourself on this thread, so be it. this country, along with the rest of the world will end on the day of judgement and as far as I'm concerned it can all go right now, because I am more than ready to not have to listen to people shake their fist in the air demanding their piece of a corrupt world. If that's what trips your trigger, have all the fun in the world. Give me your address and I'll send you all the paper you can post up to fight your own personal good fight with uncle SAM. Quite the contrary, they didn't go there just to pick a fight. They could have done that anywhere. They went to help someone who lived there, at that person's request, so please, stop misrepresenting the facts. And, even if they didn't, guess what, Americans, all Americans, have the right to A:peacefully protest. And B:own and bear arms. These guys did not once step outside their rights. Your feelings don't trample their rights, we live in a country governed by law, and protected by the Constitution, not people's feelings. Right and wrong, and people's rights, are not and never will be, defined by people's feelings. So you can express your feelings all you want, you have a right to and I respect that right. But don't expect me to change my view on the matter-and that view, is that these men and women chose to peacefully protest government tyranny, on public land. They hurt no one. And while they may have had "guns" they did far less damage then the ultra liberal BLM movement did to Ferguson and Baltimore, don't forget those towns were ripped apart without the use of guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 1.00 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 31, 2016 This thread is getting quite personal. Please tone it down a bit and stop focusing on each other, focus on the topic, this means you Churchmouse. God bless, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchmouse Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,216 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 1,014 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/02/1958 Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) Yeah this is a peaceable protest. Egging the police on to shoot at them and them not doing what they said when they get out of the car. Edited October 31, 2016 by Steve_S Removed Youtube Video from post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted October 31, 2016 55 minutes ago, The_Patriot2016 said: Quite the contrary, they didn't go there just to pick a fight. They could have done that anywhere. They went to help someone who lived there, at that person's request, so please, stop misrepresenting the facts. And, even if they didn't, guess what, Americans, all Americans, have the right to A:peacefully protest. And B:own and bear arms. These guys did not once step outside their rights. Your feelings don't trample their rights, we live in a country governed by law, and protected by the Constitution, not people's feelings. Right and wrong, and people's rights, are not and never will be, defined by people's feelings. So you can express your feelings all you want, you have a right to and I respect that right. But don't expect me to change my view on the matter-and that view, is that these men and women chose to peacefully protest government tyranny, on public land. They hurt no one. And while they may have had "guns" they did far less damage then the ultra liberal BLM movement did to Ferguson and Baltimore, don't forget those towns were ripped apart without the use of guns. Pat, I may be uninformed on this subject, but the little I've read is they were not peaceful, they did not have the right to trespass, these guys agreed to pay, at a substantial discount, grazing fees, then refused to pay. Some have collected large sums in tax dollars in the form of subsidies, they have illegally grazed which greatly damages the land when overgrazed. I am greatly surprised you support breaking the law? Whether the land should legally be the governments or not, these individuals did not own said land. Would you say I could haul my cattle out there and graze, trespass, and collect tax dollars for doing so? I don't know much about law, but I can't believe any protester should be allowed to trespass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted October 31, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Churchmouse, first off please keep in mind videos are not allowed outside of the video section of the forums. Second, that video pretty much proves our point. They were on their way to see the sheriff-the law of the land there, when they were ambushed by the feds, they declared their intent-they did not threaten the feds in any case. No, they did not stop, but they did not fire or even point a gun, at the feds. And, if you watched the video from the drone (or helicopter) not sure which, you will see the driver get out of the vehicle-and put his hands up and surrender-and then get shot for it. These people did not, in any way threaten, any of the feds. I agree they should have stopped, but then again, the feds, had no propbable cause to stop them, at all. And that would have come out in court, which is why they should have stopped, but the fact remains, they still did not threaten the feds in any way or manner, and when he did decide to finally surrender, he got shot for it. And not just once, but multiple times-and he was not carrying a gun when he was shot. So basically, you posted a video of a unlawful traffic stop by the feds, of law abiding citizens who were on the way to visit the sheriff, and they declared their intent to visit the sheriff, and were on the phone with the sheriff at the time. All you did, was prove my point. And the fact they actually SHOT the guy, when HE DID get out, it leads me to believe they may have had a legitimate reason to not stop-like for their safety. Im sorry but posting this video, against forum rules, did nothing but prove my case, its just to bad you didnt post the other part of the video where they gunned him down with his hands in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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