Daniel 11:36 Posted January 3, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) You and I will just have to disagree on this one: .... eternal punishment for ever and ever speaks of no possibility of recourse and recovery from extinction The Lord will not keep those submitted of the spirits of humans and angles somewhere in His coming eternal kingdom These will all be eliminated and forgotten There would be no purpose for the Lord to cause one to suffer excruciating punishment for "ever and ever" Edited January 3, 2017 by Daniel 11:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottA Posted January 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 552 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 104 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 10:22 PM, Marcus O'Reillius said: Even Mary knew otherwise. Jhn 11:23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Jhn 11:24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Where do we go when we die that we must be resurrected so as to be with Jesus? Paradise, the "first" Heaven. Pardon me for butting in, but "the resurrection on the last day"...is "at death" - that is the last day (for us all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 5, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2017 On 1/3/2017 at 2:55 AM, n2thelight said: The last day is at death,for those who die So there are two thousand last day. No "s" - singular. Yeah, okay... so we missed it. No, on the Last Day - singular - the dead are resurrected and then those who remain and are still alive do not suffer death, but are gathered up in the Harvest Rapture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted January 5, 2017 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: So there are two thousand last day. No "s" - singular. Yeah, okay... so we missed it. No, on the Last Day - singular - the dead are resurrected and then those who remain and are still alive do not suffer death, but are gathered up in the Harvest Rapture. Well then you believe in soul sleep. Christ returns at the 7th and last trump,those who have died return with Him,those alive are changed to what those coming back already are. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. How can He bring them if they are not already there? We have as Paul says two bodies,can't figure out what part of the below people don't understand I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" You see the question? I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." Not my words but scripture,two bodies. There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you. It just can't be made any clearer than Paul has made it here. You have two bodies, the flesh and the spiritual bodies. When the flesh body dies, then the spiritual body is awakened and come alive within itself. It starts to live a life without the baggage of the flesh body confining it to the limits of the flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 5, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2017 8 hours ago, n2thelight said: Well then you believe in soul sleep. No, I don't. Where do you come off jumping to conclusions on what I believe? I am not a fan of John Calvin - however - I do agree with his paper on "soul sleep". The first layer of the dimensions of Heaven: Paradise - a place of "rest", where there is comfort, and the fresh cool water of the Spirit. 8 hours ago, n2thelight said: Christ returns at the 7th and last trump, That - is a conclusion of your eschatology - which I don't share. I can show Biblical "proof" by the linking of Scripture that the 7th Trumpet of God's Wrath blown by an Angel is not the Last Trumpet assembling God's Elect blown by Jesus on the Last Day of the Church Age. 8 hours ago, n2thelight said: How can He bring them if they are not already there? Because on the Day of the Lord, after the celestial signs proclaiming that Day, He descends to the Mount of Olives (Acts 1:11), splits it in two, (Zec 14:4) which re-makes it into Mount Zion. From there, He "musters" His Army - (Isa 13:2-6; Rev 7:4-7; Rev 14:1-4). While they are being sealed: He goes to Paradise - from where He went with the thief on His Right on the day He was crucified - and He raises the Dead in Christ (1Th 4:16). Then WITH THEM whom He has just raised in new immortal and imperishable bodies - He comes with them (1Th 3:13) to gather the Elect who "remain and are still alive" from the face of the earth (Mt 24:31). These saved souls are the Great Multitude of Rev 7:9-17. THEN the first Trumpet of God's Wrath sounds, supply two elements of the Day of the Lord's Wrath - fire and blood - and Jesus fights two battles centering around Jerusalem (not Armageddon) on that day. (The second being in the "Valley of Decision" which scholars peg to be near Bethlehem.) _________________________________________________________ So - they are planted mortal; They are raised immortal. See? No, you won't. No one who posts changes their heart-felt convictions. Which is why eschatology is so contentious among Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted January 5, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) My comment This must be understood: No one has gone to heaven except the One who has come down from heaved The dead man knows nothing ttp://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Sleep,-And-Death Edited January 5, 2017 by Daniel 11:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted January 5, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.62 Reputation: 27,832 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2017 Quote No one has gone to heaven except the One who has come down from heaved I do Believe this myself..................... With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted January 5, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.62 Reputation: 27,832 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 5, 2017 Quote There would be no purpose for the Lord to cause one to suffer excruciating punishment for "ever and ever" Daniel For everything God Does & for what HE Allows AND for every reason there is a Purpose & Purpose in every reason......we simply do not always understand what or why that is... Quote Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Perhaps it is because He is JUST and also,Our Lord does not CAUSE eternal excruciating punishment,it is a choice ,a willful decision that is the "cause"...... We will agree to disagree,not a problem here To God be the Glory! With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted January 6, 2017 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2017 13 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: My comment This must be understood: No one has gone to heaven except the One who has come down from heaved The dead man knows nothing ttp://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Sleep,-And-Death I was waiting on that one John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of man Which is in heaven." No man, no one goes to heaven, but that he first was born from above. That soul must first be born of women, where the soul entered the womb at conception, and when the flesh body dies, it is returned to the father. There is not a living being on this earth, that did not come down from the Father first, and at death shall return to the Father. That is just plain common sense Just like Christ was in Heaven before being born of woman,so were we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 6, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: No one has gone to heaven except the One who has come down from heaved This must be understood. John went to Heaven. Paul says he knows a man who went to Heaven. John and Paul were contemporary Disciples of Christ Jesus Jews. Jesus' statement specifically says in the Greek's active voice that no one has gone to Heaven - on their own power. The words the Apostle John used do not preclude someone being taken - in the passive voice - that is: it is done to them - to Heaven. John was called up to Heaven. He did not have the power to take himself there. Edited January 6, 2017 by Marcus O'Reillius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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