QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4

[Marcus O'Reillius]

All I am saying is that we really don't know what happened to the 10 Tribes.

And whatever happened to them, has little real bearing on the study of end-time prophecy.

[Salty]

1 minute ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

I didn't say it comes RIGHT after.

I said it comes after.  And it does.

It also comes after the Two Laws in Revelation 13:15-16 which make the Great Tribulation so great for the Elect that they are in danger of being completely wiped out!

Your statement did not make that point clear. That's why I understood you to mean a Pre-trib idea. That coupled with you bringing up John 14:3, which the Pre-tribbers love to also use, also can make you look like a Pre-tribber.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

4 minutes ago, heyvavhey said:

How many he needs is not my decision. Nor is it mine to question. 

I didn't decide either.

However, I do see the sound of the Great Multitude as being separate from His Army in the context of the scene John presents in Revelation chapter 19.
And I correlate His Army to those Firstfruits of the Harvest who are special and said to never leave His side because of a verse in Scripture.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

7 minutes ago, Salty said:

Your statement did not make that point clear. That's why I understood you to mean a Pre-trib idea. That coupled with you bringing up John 14:3, which the Pre-tribbers love to also use, also can make you look like a Pre-tribber.

I am not Pre-Trib, nor does John 14:1-3 dictate a Rapture before the one 'seven' begins.

It does invalidate the idea I've heard quite a few express here that we're going to be gathered up just to be put in Jerusalem, Israel in the middle East.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Marcus O'Reillius

[Salty]

Just now, Marcus O'Reillius said:

All I am saying is that we really don't know what happened to the 10 Tribes.

And whatever happened to them, has little real bearing on the study of end-time prophecy.

The majority of brethren still do not know. Yet God said in OT prophecy a remnant of them would know. This is how those who wrote the Declaration of Arbroath in 13th century Scotland's Declaration of Independence would mention their treks of ancient times being of Israel.

The "company of nations" and "multitude of nations" prophecy of Gen.35 and Gen.48 have been there all along for God's people to understand. In Genesis 49 Jacob begins the Chapter by telling his twelve sons what would befall them in the "last days". Even that is a direct pointer to the existence of the ten tribes in our times, and that was written all the way back in Genesis! And that's not to mention all the OT Scripture about the gathering of the ten tribes to be joined back with Judah at Christ's coming (like Ezek.37 which started this debate topic).

So there's quite a few Scripture pointers about the ten tribes in latter times than what the unstudied may think.

Think about just that "multitude of nations" prophecy about Ephraim. The nation of Israel has only ever been but ONE nation, not a multitude of nations. And that prophecy is specific, because it was first given to Jacob in Gen.35 saying that from his seed would come "a nation" (Israel), and "a company of nations" (western Christian nations).

God made Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim king over the ten tribed northern kingdom called the "house of Israel" and "kingdom of Israel" according to The Bible Scriptures (see 1 Kings 11 forward). The tribe of Ephraim became the head over the rest of the ten tribes.

If you look closely at Paul's quote from Hosea 1 in Romans 9 to Gentile believers, you will see how he used the prophecy about the ten tribes in Hosea applied ALSO to believing Gentile Romans. When God receives the ten tribes again, He will gather the believing Gentiles with them, and what He said in Hosea 1 in final that He call those who rebuked who were not a people, 'My people', that is pointing directly to the ten tribes involved in Christ's Church among the Gentiles. That is why Darby's Dispensationalist idea about only Israelites being a nation again on earth while the Church resides in Heaven is a ludicrous.

 

 

[Salty]

10 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

I am not Pre-Trib, nor does John 14:1-3 dictate a Rapture before the one 'seven' begins.

It does invalidate the idea I've heard quite a few express here that we're going to be gathered up just to be put in Jerusalem, Israel in the middle East.

No, it does not invalidate the idea of Christ gathering His Church to Jerusalem where He will be. What many miss when reading those John 14 verses is that Jesus promised to gather them where He is, and when He returns Jerusalem is where He will be as we are shown in Zech.14, and all the saints with Him, as written there.

The idea of living up in the clouds somewhere in the air is really a thought from spiritualists.

[Salty]

21 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

I didn't say that.

I sense a pattern here on your part though.

What pattern would that be, because what I'm saying certainly is opposite of anti-Semitism. Is that what you were going to try and bring up? That of course would have been a lie ya know, which is probably why you decided against saying it.

[Salty]

40 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

The Abramaic Covenant was also to include the world.

And the fullness of the Gentiles must come in before the partial hardness of the Jews, the favored of the two groups in my opinion, is lessened to the point that they become malleable and receive the Holy Spirit as we have been granted that wedding gift.

Whether or not God has redeemed the 10 Tribes through the Church remains moot and mute in the New Testament.

There are 12 Tribes included in the apportionment of the Land in Ezekiel though - although they are named differently than from Old.

What God's Plans are in regards to the 10 Tribes is not part of Christian theology in the main.
I've heard of it, but it has no relative bearing on my study of eschatology as to the people, nations, languages and tongues who do make up the Great Multitude or the sequencing of how what IS written about the end-times is to come about.

You show you really don't know enough Bible history to understand about the position of the ten tribes in the latter times.

How could you even think that God redeeming the ten tribes by their scattering among the Gentiles and their believing on Christ with them would be "moot"? How could you even think that has no bearing on God's Word and His Plan of Salvation?

Just because there's 12 tribes shown in the latter Ezekiel chapters, which are future Millennium and forward timings, and you try to use that against the idea of the ten tribes in the west, that also shows you are just not up to par with Bible history.

Likewise, with statements like the 10 tribes has no part in Christianity per God's plan, also shows you are behind with Bible prophecy about the ten tribes:

Heb 8:8-10
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
KJV

Even that is repeated in the NT Book of Hebrews! Only the Ultradispensationalists should have missed reading that, since they only heed Paul's Epistles. So how can Christian theology claim there's no such thing as the two house theology??? Those who just don't know claim it doesn't exist, otherwise they'd have to make up lies to try act to the people like they know what they're talking about! So it's easier for them to just deny that any such idea is written in God's Word.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

15 minutes ago, Salty said:

You show you really don't know enough Bible history to understand about the position of the ten tribes in the latter times.

How could you even think that God redeeming the ten tribes by their scattering among the Gentiles and their believing on Christ with them would be "moot"? How could you even think that has no bearing on God's Word and His Plan of Salvation?

Just because there's 12 tribes shown in the latter Ezekiel chapters, which are future Millennium and forward timings, and you try to use that against the idea of the ten tribes in the west, that also shows you are just not up to par with Bible history.

Likewise, with statements like the 10 tribes has no part in Christianity per God's plan, also shows you are behind with Bible prophecy about the ten tribes:

Heb 8:8-10
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
KJV

Even that is repeated in the NT Book of Hebrews! Only the Ultradispensationalists should have missed reading that, since they only heed Paul's Epistles. So how can Christian theology claim there's no such thing as the two house theology??? Those who just don't know claim it doesn't exist, otherwise they'd have to make up lies to try act to the people like they know what they're talking about! So it's easier for them to just deny that any such idea is written in God's Word.

 

Two house theology is heresy.

[Guest shiloh357]

10 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Oh wonderful this has been fulfilled

Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Belonging to Joseph (that is, to Ephraim) and all the Israelites associated with him.'

It will be fulfilled when God rejoins the 12 Hebrew tribes at Israel's restoration.  Ephraim is not the Gentile nations.