Babylon, the Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained.

[Revelation Man]

On 1/3/2017 at 1:15 PM, Salty said:

In Rev.13, there is NO mention of the "false prophet", so why do men's traditions keep trying to add that to that Scripture?

In Rev.13:11 begins description about a 2nd beast, the "another beast" and it is a man that comes like a lamb, but speaks as a dragon. That is a direct reference to a false one coming in the role of Christ but will speak as the dragon. It does not say "false prophet". And because that 2nd beast is to do great signs and wonders, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men, as the one in 2 Thess.2 and Matt.24:23-26 also is to do, it is a direct pointer to the Antichrist.

The Beast and False Prophet are cast into hell together. This man comes as the true False Christ, the Anti-Christ does not, then he tells everyone that the Beast IS GOD............That is the whole point, Jesus was a prophet. This F.P. will come as Jesus the Christ hence he has to be Jewish, he will have powers etc. etc, and he will claim the the BEAST is GOD HIMSELF, and that all must Worship his IMAGE. The False Prophet is a BEAST because he helped the BEAST/A.C. to conquer Israel.

On 1/3/2017 at 1:15 PM, Salty said:

The next thing to consider then, based on understanding the power to do those great signs and wonders is, we must ask ourselves whether that means some flesh born man with that kind of supernatural power, or is it a heavenly being on earth, like an angel, doing it?

 

Men on earth who serve Satan can have supernatural powers.

On 1/3/2017 at 1:15 PM, Salty said:

Well, Rev.16:13-14 reveals those spirits of devils come out of the "mouth" of the dragon also, and Rev.12:9 tells us the "dragon" is just another title for Satan.

 

Yes, the Dragon is Satan, but those Spirits that go forth are just LYING SPIRITS/Demons, sent forth to entice the Kings of the East into Battle. Say Obama lies about something today, it could be said a LYING SPIRIT went forth to deceive the MASSES.  

 

On 1/3/2017 at 1:15 PM, Salty said:

What you apparently have yet to figure out is that it's that "dragon" (Satan) which is going to be literally cast out of the Heavenly dimension down to earth with his angels like our Lord Jesus told us in Rev.12:7 forward. And what comes out of one's 'mouth' are words, which in this case are lies to cause deception. This is what we were shown the locust army he is in control over will also do, for their power is in their mouth Rev.9 says.

That "dragon" of Rev.13 is... that "another beast", a 2nd beast, and is pointing to the coming beast king of Rev.17, and is the same one of Rev.9 that is the angel of the bottomless pit, and is a king over the locusts, and will ascend from the bottomless pit to kill God's two witnesses in Jerusalem, and will also work those great signs and wonders, raining fire from heaven in the sight of men, and will proclaim himself as God sitting the temple of God, i.e., a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem for the end, playing The Messiah. He is the "another Jesus" which Apostle Paul warned us about in 2 Corinthians 11.

NOT SO........Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Now I understand you don't think the False Prophet is the 2nd Beast in Rev. 13, but imho, it most certainly is, Demons do not manifest in earthly bodies. It has never happened. 

The Beast shall make war with them only means God allows them to be killed by MEN who are controlled by this Apollyon demon. Just like King Herod tried to kill the baby Jesus via Satan's/Dragons orders. We are losing sight of the fact that we fight principalities that we see not ALL THE TIME, and they use OTHER PEOPLE......They do not come against us physically, but SPIRITUALLY. 

On 1/3/2017 at 1:15 PM, Salty said:

Rev 13:4-7
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

A lot of people actually will understand that this man is of Satan, you would be surprised how many GOD HATING, Satan loving people there are. We see people that love Abortion, homosexuality etc. etc. People worship Satan now......Demons are just in different dimensions, in the Spirit world, you can actually see Angels and Demons, and Witches do actually FLY and call children to them. Its real. But he is not the Beast/A.C. or Beast/F.P.

 

On 1/3/2017 at 1:15 PM, Salty said:

Why so many brethren listen to men's traditions on that instead of believing what God's Word says as actually written, I don't know. It's apparent that some illiterate has suckered many pastors today into believing that Satan (that "dragon" per Rev.12:9) cannot ever appear on earth literally with the image of man, when God's Word reveals angels appeared on earth with the image of men (like Gen.19).

The very sin Apostle Paul showed in 2 Thess.2 with the "man of sin" coming to sit in the temple of God in Jerusalem and proclaim himself as God, with the supernatural power to do miracles on earth to make the whole world believe it, is the very first sin that Satan did against The Father in wanting to be God!

In in our Lord's Revelation, the indicators are that Satan in person, is coming to do that again on earth, literally with his being booted out of the heavenly per Rev.12:7 forward. That is actually why his coming here on earth, in person with his angels, will be the greatest time of tribulation that mankind will have ever seen, and there will never again be another time like it.

Thats all good........But Revelation 10 calls Satan the Devil, and the Anti-Christ THE BEAST.....We know the False Prophet is the Second Beast, because it says he had TWO HORNS as if he was a Lamb, meaning he was a MAN just like Jesus, and claims to be the Messiah.

 

[Salty]

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Agreed, all the way up until Matthew 24:14 we have a Jesus speaking t the Disciples about their plight and the Churches plight. After Matthew 24:14 there will be no Church, because the Gospel will be preached unto all the world, THEN the end will come, then in verse 15 the Abomination of Desolation (AoD) happens, then Jews are told to Flee to the Wilderness/Mountains. We know this is the End Times because verse 21 says there will be the GREATEST TRIBULATION ever seen, V.22 says except the time is shortened (to a pre-planed 7 years by God) there would no flesh be saved, then V.24 says don't follow any false Christ's or false prophets. Then Jesus says if they say he is in the desert, don't go, if they say e is in a secret chamber, don't go, for I will come back from the East, in the Sky. 

I assume you're saying there will be no more Church after verse 14 because of some rapture idea, but that is not what the Scriptures reveal.

It's actually the faithful saints of Christ's Church that will be the ones giving that Testimony for Christ during the tribulation:

Mark 13:10-11
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
KJV

Jesus spoke that to His disciples there on the Mount of Olives, which means to the foundation of His Church, to Peter He would give the keys. And these are events to affect believers on Jesus at the very end of this world. In Rev.11 we are shown two candlesticks linked with God's two witnesses giving a Testimony against the beast. Per Jesus at the end of Rev.1, the candelsticks represent the Churches.

So this understanding becomes very simple when one keeps to and follows the Scriptures as written instead of following the doctrines of men.

 

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You see, I think these false prophets are Rabbis, lets face it, that is who they are. When they see Elijah preaching Jesus and preforming Miracles, there will be many False Prophets (Rabbis) trying to being forth the "REAL MESSIAH" because all the signs will be there that they know about, which we know about, EXCEPT.....They missed the First Coming altogether, and do not except Jesus as the Messiah, so they are going to try an FORCE a Messiah, many Rabbis will come forth with many Messiahs, all will be wrong, then there will be one False Prophet, who will try and deceive Israel to accept the Man of Sin/Beast/Anti-Christ as their Messiah, but by that time, Elijah will have turned their Hearts to their true Messiah, Jesus Christ, (Zechariah 12:10, Zechariah 13:1) and so Israel WILL NOT ACCEPT HIM, they instead have accepted Jesus as their Messiah, thus the False Prophet will place an IMAGE of the Beast in the Temple of God, and the Israelis will HEED Jesus' words, and flee......why would they flee to where Jesus told them to flee if they had not accepted Jesus as their Messiah by this time ? There will be some, no doubt that follow this F.P and A.C., but not many, ALL ISRAEL will turn to God, or Israel as a nation. 

Traditions of men are simply men's doctrines, doesn't matter whether it comes from the Jewish leaders or Christian leaders, it's all doctrines fabricated by man. We are to heed God's voice and keep His commandments, as they are to do that too.

Anyone who comes claiming to speak for God, saying 'God said...', and the thing doesn't come to pass, is a false prophet. So anyone coming claiming to be Christ is definitely a false prophet also. It doesn't require that they be a Jewish rabbi. There have already been many fanatics just in my lifetime claiming to be Jesus Christ. So that's a no brainer type of thing.

But... someone coming to claim to be Christ AND... with the power of miracles, great signs, and wonders, that if possible would deceive even Christ's own very elect, that... is a different story. That is talking about the SUPERNATURAL kind of working on earth. And the fact that already our Lord Jesus warned about this specific working by a certain false one that's to come, and through His servant John in Rev.13, and by Apostle Paul in 2 Thess.2:3-8, then that's 3 times He gave that special warning, so we have no excuse in not understanding it. You could also count Paul's warning in 2 Cor.11 about the "another Jesus" idea also, which would be 4 times, because this is what Paul was speaking about there too.

 

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

From Jesus' death until he returns at the Second Coming is the Great Tribulation, the 70th Week is just THE GREATEST TRIBULATION of all. We all go through the Tribulation and Trials of the Devil. 

That idea is another doctrine of men. The time of "great tribulation" Jesus taught as a sign for the end in His Olivet discourse is for the very end of this world, and it has not yet begun today. It specifically is the latter 1260 day period of the "one week" of Dan.9:27. It has been shortened, but I will not say to what.

I take it that you don't stay up on world news or history that much. There's plenty of legit info out there about the globalist's intentions on forming a "one world government" over all peoples and nations on the earth today. It's been a on-going plan even before I was born, and I'm fairly old. That will happen, as that is exactly what the idea of the beast kingdom of seven heads, ten horns, and ten crowns of Rev.13 is about for the end of this world. This is not something up to us, God is allowing it. So the question is, are we ready for it? do we know what our Lord Jesus wants us to do during it, because He did tell us?

 

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

Jesus in John 14:30 was speaking about Satan bringing people forth to Crucify him. In 1 John 2:18 its just speaking of how many  people will be anti-christ/Jesus, until the end when Jesus returns, when the real anti-Christ will show up. In Rev. 12:7, that actually happens at the time of the Abomination of Desolation, I can show you, but I will give you a hint.... Triangulate Daniel 11:45-12:1-2, Mathew 24:14-22 and Revelation 12:6-8 or 6-17 if you want..........These three match up perfectly, they show that Satan is cast out of Heaven just about the time of the Abomination of Desolation.

The word "antichrist" is used in both the singular and the plural tense in 1 John 2:18. The main Antichrist is Satan himself. His followers are the "many antichrists" that have already been at work. In 2 Thess.2 Paul calls it the "mystery of iniquity" which is about the negative side of God's Plan for this world.

Yes, Dan.11:45 is about the coming Antichrist, I agree. But so is most of that Dan.11 chapter, which shows his coming will be at the start of the "one week". In Dan.11:21 he obtains the kingdom by "flatteries" coming into power peacefully. He will work deceitfully with a small group per verse 23. Then in verses 30-31, he will have indignation against the holy covenant, meaning the old covenant will have been established again in that time with the "league" he makes. That's why the daily sacrifice exists then again, which is then taken away in v.31 and the abomination of desolation is setup in its place, establishing the midpoint of the "one week".

 

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

The Anti-Christ is the Man of Sin/Little Horn, The Assyrian. He is a MAN...He is the Leader of the Revived Roman Empire/Beast or a 10 Nation confederation, which many think will come forth from the E.U. after a shake up that reduces the Kingdoms to 10 nations. He comes out of the Sea, meaning he is a Gentile. The False Prophet comes out of the LAND meaning he is a Jew. 

 

It will be all men who served Satan, not just Jews. IMHO.

Non entirely correct.

The 1st beast of Rev.13:1-2 that comes out the "sea" is the kingdom of ten heads, ten crowns, and ten horns. Jesus showed in Rev.17:15 that represent the peoples, multitudes, tongues, and nations. This is why Dan.7 is being compared to it in Rev.13:2.

The 2nd beast of Rev.13:11 forward that does the miracles and wonders in sight of men is the coming Antichrist, the "dragon", "little horn", "man of sin", "son of perdition", "that Wicked"; "king of fierce countenance"; "vile person", etc.

The E.U. will only be part of the world structure. The plan is a triparte world, 3 unions like the E.U.

The Daniel prophecy for the end has all 5 pieces of the stature joined together for the very end. The iron mixed with clay suggests 2 main groups that will not quite mix trying to work together, partly strong and partly weak. They represent western civilization joined with eastern civilization. This is what the globalists have been trying to do with establishing their "one world government". So just looking at a pope or the RCC, or just one specific area like that is actually to miss the greater span of things.

The Antichrist will have to be from the tribe Judah, since he will claim to be The Messiah of The Bible. But his ascending up from the bottomless pit like Rev.11:7 reveals, shows it's actually the devil himself coming to play Messiah.

 

[Daniel 11:36]

"Yes, Dan.11:45 is about the coming Antichrist, I agree. But so is most of that Dan.11 chapter, which shows his coming will be at the start of the "one week". In Dan.11:21 he obtains the kingdom by "flatteries" coming into power peacefully. He will work deceitfully with a small group per verse 23. Then in verses 30-31, he will have indignation against the holy covenant, meaning the old covenant will have been established again in that time with the "league" he makes. That's why the daily sacrifice exists then again, which is then taken away in v.31 and the abomination of desolation is setup in its place, establishing the midpoint of the "one week".

 

My comment

Make certain you understand that Daniel 11:21-35 is the exact profile of Antiochus IV

If you don't this will effect your overall renderings

The little horn of Daniel [11:7-25; 8:9-25; 11:36-45; 12:7] is the coming "antichrist" who will be inhabited and controlled by Satan's first beast, Abaddon/Apollyon, in Revelation's unfolding

All of the related visions of the prophets break between the last king of the northern Seleucid kingdom [the 5th fallen] .... and the coming of the little horn who will rule both the 6th smaller and 7th divided expanded Middle Eastern kingdom at the time of the end 

 

 

 

[Revelation Man]

6 minutes ago, Salty said:

I assume you're saying there will be no more Church after verse 14 because of some rapture idea, but that is not what the Scriptures reveal.

It's actually the faithful saints of Christ's Church that will be the ones giving that Testimony for Christ during the tribulation:

Except they will be people who come to Christ Jesus after the RAPTURE/SNATCHING AWAY/CHANGING IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, or whatever you like to call it. I never get why people who actually think we are going through the Tribulation keeps making that same old tired argument. People can be SAVED after the Rapture, so why keep making that same argument ? It makes no sense to argue that point, it seems desperate.

12 minutes ago, Salty said:

Mark 13:10-11
10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
KJV

Jesus spoke that to His disciples there on the Mount of Olives, which means to the foundation of His Church, to Peter He would give the keys. And these are events to affect believers on Jesus at the very end of this world. In Rev.11 we are shown two candlesticks linked with God's two witnesses giving a Testimony against the beast. Per Jesus at the end of Rev.1, the candelsticks represent the Churches.

So this understanding becomes very simple when one keeps to and follows the Scriptures as written instead of following the doctrines of men.

Verse 10 and 11 has nothing to do with the end time. Jesus was saying there that the gospel must be preached unto all the world by you, my disciples and others that you will disciple, then we see he instructs the disciples about how the coming HOLY GHOST will lead them and speak for them. The Abomination of Desolation comes in verse 14.

18 minutes ago, Salty said:

Traditions of men are simply men's doctrines, doesn't matter whether it comes from the Jewish leaders or Christian leaders, it's all doctrines fabricated by man. We are to heed God's voice and keep His commandments, as they are to do that too.

 

I find this an odd statement that you seem to use every time you disagree with someone about scriptures, so  be mindful, that many might see your thoughts as traditions of men also.

22 minutes ago, Salty said:

Anyone who comes claiming to speak for God, saying 'God said...', and the thing doesn't come to pass, is a false prophet. So anyone coming claiming to be Christ is definitely a false prophet also. It doesn't require that they be a Jewish rabbi. There have already been many fanatics just in my lifetime claiming to be Jesus Christ. So that's a no brainer type of thing.

But... someone coming to claim to be Christ AND... with the power of miracles, great signs, and wonders, that if possible would deceive even Christ's own very elect, that... is a different story. That is talking about the SUPERNATURAL kind of working on earth. And the fact that already our Lord Jesus warned about this specific working by a certain false one that's to come, and through His servant John in Rev.13, and by Apostle Paul in 2 Thess.2:3-8, then that's 3 times He gave that special warning, so we have no excuse in not understanding it. You could also count Paul's warning in 2 Cor.11 about the "another Jesus" idea also, which would be 4 times, because this is what Paul was speaking about there too.

The False Prophet is a Jew, that is what the bible says, (comes out of the Land). The words said would deceive the very ELECT IF THAT WERE POSSIBLE, tells me that it is not possible, as long as they have the Holy Spirit. It is only the DEVIL......we have witches that work Satan's magic on earth as we speak, this is not new stuff. Satan will be allowed to wield much power in the F.P. but that means very little. Only the naive will be deceived. They were warning the Jews, who will be on earth after the Rapture, except the Messianic Jews, of what to look for.

29 minutes ago, Salty said:

That idea is another doctrine of men. The time of "great tribulation" Jesus taught as a sign for the end in His Olivet discourse is for the very end of this world, and it has not yet begun today. It specifically is the latter 1260 day period of the "one week" of Dan.9:27. It has been shortened, but I will not say to what.

 

Jesus saying that the END PERIOD will be the GREATEST TROUBLE doesn't mean that he is saying all 2000 years is NOT TRIBULATIONS does it ? Thereby the confusion. Jess calls the end time period the greatest troubles, but all 2000 years are the tribulation of Christians. We live in Satan's world. There will be no shortening of the 7 Year Period. It was designed as a 7 year period to save human life, God built in the right time frame. God knows all but somehow had to REDESIGN His 7 year period. !! NOT.

33 minutes ago, Salty said:

I take it that you don't stay up on world news or history that much. There's plenty of legit info out there about the globalist's intentions on forming a "one world government" over all peoples and nations on the earth today. It's been a on-going plan even before I was born, and I'm fairly old. That will happen, as that is exactly what the idea of the beast kingdom of seven heads, ten horns, and ten crowns of Rev.13 is about for the end of this world. This is not something up to us, God is allowing it. So the question is, are we ready for it? do we know what our Lord Jesus wants us to do during it, because He did tell us?

 

Read the OP and you will see that Babylon is only a FALSE GOV. It might not be world wide, probably is, but it is FALSE GOV. The church will not go through it. So I am ready for the Rapture. 

The Anti-Christ is in the world, I was shown that in a Vision in 1986. 

39 minutes ago, Salty said:

The word "antichrist" is used in both the singular and the plural tense in 1 John 2:18. The main Antichrist is Satan himself. His followers are the "many antichrists" that have already been at work. In 2 Thess.2 Paul calls it the "mystery of iniquity" which is about the negative side of God's Plan for this world.

Yes, Dan.11:45 is about the coming Antichrist, I agree. But so is most of that Dan.11 chapter, which shows his coming will be at the start of the "one week". In Dan.11:21 he obtains the kingdom by "flatteries" coming into power peacefully. He will work deceitfully with a small group per verse 23. Then in verses 30-31, he will have indignation against the holy covenant, meaning the old covenant will have been established again in that time with the "league" he makes. That's why the daily sacrifice exists then again, which is then taken away in v.31 and the abomination of desolation is setup in its place, establishing the midpoint of the "one week".

Satan is Anti-Christ.......................but he is not THE ANTI-CHRIST or Man of Sin, that is A MAN. 

The Covenant is not a HOLY COVENANT, which only means Agreement, it is only HOLY when it is between God and men. A covenant between MEN and MEN is only and AGREEMENT BETWEEN MEN. 

42 minutes ago, Salty said:

The 1st beast of Rev.13:1-2 that comes out the "sea" is the kingdom of ten heads, ten crowns, and ten horns. Jesus showed in Rev.17:15 that represent the peoples, multitudes, tongues, and nations. This is why Dan.7 is being compared to it in Rev.13:2.

 

Rev. 17:15 is not the Beast, it is the Harlot, they are two separate entities, as my OP states. 

 

43 minutes ago, Salty said:

The E.U. will only be part of the world structure. The plan is a triparte world, 3 unions like the E.U.

 

Daniel says it is a Revived Fourth Beast.

44 minutes ago, Salty said:

The Antichrist will have to be from the tribe Judah, since he will claim to be The Messiah of The Bible. But his ascending up from the bottomless pit like Rev.11:7 reveals, shows it's actually the devil himself coming to play Messiah.

 

The Anti-Christ is a Gentile, born in Greece. 

 

GOD BLESS..........

[Salty]

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Beast and False Prophet are cast into hell together. This man comes as the true False Christ, the Anti-Christ does not, then he tells everyone that the Beast IS GOD............That is the whole point, Jesus was a prophet. This F.P. will come as Jesus the Christ hence he has to be Jewish, he will have powers etc. etc, and he will claim the the BEAST is GOD HIMSELF, and that all must Worship his IMAGE. The False Prophet is a BEAST because he helped the BEAST/A.C. to conquer Israel.

The 2nd beast of Rev.13:11 is the Antichrist, and the same false one of Matt.24:23-26 and 2 Thess.2:3-4. Per the Greek, 'anti' can also mean 'instead of' or 'in place of'. And that's the main working by the coming Antichrist, he will play God in Jerusalem, and more specifically The Messiah (our Lord Jesus). The problem is, just how many will be deceived by him? For the orthodox Jews, they will accept him as the Messiah of Isaiah whom they still await today. For deceived Christian brethren, they will be told it's our Lord Jesus. And those of us Christians who refuse to fall for it will be persecuted even by our own deceived brethren, which is what Jesus' Message about brother betraying brother, father against son, and children against their parents causing them to be put to death (Mark 13:12 which is about the 5th Seal of Rev.6).

The beast and false prophet are just ROLES in a stage play that the Antichrist will play. Look at Dan.11 again. When it speaks of the "vile person" doing those things, all the way down to causing the placing of the abomination of desolation, he's the only one mentioned that fits the Antichrist role. There is no mention of a false prophet working with him side-by-side there. It's the Antichrist only.

And like I had already shown, no flesh man will be judged and sentenced to perish in the "lake of fire" until AFTER the 1,000 years reign of Christ. That means the beast and false prophet are offices, and not actual flesh men.

 

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Men on earth who serve Satan can have supernatural powers.

Only in comic books and Hollywood movies, because what God's Word is talking about is the Antichrist working miracles on the level our Lord Jesus would do. Haven't seen much of that lately, and I still recognize our Heavenly Father and His Son and The Holy Spirit still work miracles today. But not the writhing in the floor making animal noises, laughing uncontrollably, type of stuff some claim is from The Holy Spirit. Those same types of manifestations happen in eastern religions also, which ought to raise a huge... question mark in the mind of the devout Christian.

 

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Yes, the Dragon is Satan, but those Spirits that go forth are just LYING SPIRITS/Demons, sent forth to entice the Kings of the East into Battle. Say Obama lies about something today, it could be said a LYING SPIRIT went forth to deceive the MASSES.

Those spirits just represent the working of devils by the waters as a flood that comes out of the serpent's mouth. Rev.9 showed that's the main type of working the locust army does also on the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period. The MAIN working for the great tribulation period (which is that 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period) is about LIES that cause deception along with the working of miracles to deceive with. It is not about WWIII or mass chaos on the earth. It will be a time of world peace as shown in Daniel in by our Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse.

The MAIN LIE will be that of the Antichrist coming to play the Messiah of The Bible, which means our Lord Jesus Christ. This is what all the chaste virgin and being with child metaphors are about.

 

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

NOT SO........Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Now I understand you don't think the False Prophet is the 2nd Beast in Rev. 13, but imho, it most certainly is, Demons do not manifest in earthly bodies. It has never happened. 

Look at Rev.19:20 which is different. The "dragon" is NOT mentioned being cast into the lake of fire AT CHRIST'S RETURN. Rightly divide brother. The Rev.20:10 verse is for AFTER... the 1,000 years of Rev.20. The Rev.19:20 verse is for just BEFORE the 1,000 years.

The "false prophet" is just a role in a stage play. When we say 'Jesus Christ', do we also say 'Jesus The Prophet'? No, but our Lord Jesus also was a Prophet according to God's Word (Acts 3:20-26). That is what the coming Antichrist will mimic also, and is why it gets destroyed in the lake of fire on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming while the dragon (Satan) does not.

As for demons not manifesting on earth with the image of man, you're wrong about that too. Remember king Saul going to the witch that conjured up the dead spirit of the prophet Samuel? That witch had a familiar spirit, and that's what king Saul saw, not the real spirit of Samuel.

The fact that Rev.12:7 forward shows there's to be a war in the heavenly when Satan is cast down to this earth with his angels has a specific meaning:

Rev 12:7-8
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
KJV

Since "their place" is no more found in heaven when that happens, what do you think that means? It's simple if one sticks to God's Word. Per The Bible there's only TWO different dimensions of existence, this earthly one and the heavenly one. Even hell and the bottomless pit is in the heavenly dimension this verse shows. It's just in a place of separation, which is why it is compared to a prison in God's Word.

So if Satan is booted out of the heavenly, his place in the heavenly no more found, then what other... place is left for him to go? In OUR dimension, this earthly dimension WE live in.

He cannot be booted to earth and stay in the heavenly dimension, because that would mean he stil has a place in heaven, albeit a place of separation like in the earth, if you will. It's important to understand the difference between the two dimensions in God's Word to grasp this.

He is not coming only, but his angels are coming with Him. This is why Jesus said it will be just like the days of Noah.

 

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Beast shall make war with them only means God allows them to be killed by MEN who are controlled by this Apollyon demon. Just like King Herod tried to kill the baby Jesus via Satan's/Dragons orders. We are losing sight of the fact that we fight principalities that we see not ALL THE TIME, and they use OTHER PEOPLE......They do not come against us physically, but SPIRITUALLY.

Apollyon of Rev.9 is another title for Satan himself. It means the Destroyer. Satan is the angel of the bottomless pit. He is the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit of Rev.11:7. He is the king over the locust army of Rev.9. He has many titles.

Well, during the coming great tribulation, you are going to see Satan and his angels here on earth, if you don't die beforehand. The question on the table is though, will you believe that's our Lord Jesus and His angels having returned, thus being deceived?

Furthermore, there's ample Bible evidence for the manifesting of angels with the image of man on this earth. Gen.18 & 19 are primary examples, and one of them was our Lord Jesus before... He came in the flesh through woman's womb. I see that you are another that struggles with understanding this type of thing about the two different dimensions of existence, and how they can interrelate.

 

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

A lot of people actually will understand that this man is of Satan, you would be surprised how many GOD HATING, Satan loving people there are. We see people that love Abortion, homosexuality etc. etc. People worship Satan now......Demons are just in different dimensions, in the Spirit world, you can actually see Angels and Demons, and Witches do actually FLY and call children to them. Its real. But he is not the Beast/A.C. or Beast/F.P.

 

Thats all good........But Revelation 10 calls Satan the Devil, and the Anti-Christ THE BEAST.....We know the False Prophet is the Second Beast, because it says he had TWO HORNS as if he was a Lamb, meaning he was a MAN just like Jesus, and claims to be the Messiah.

 

Just because something has the image of man does not automatically make it a flesh born man. The image of man originates from our Heavenly Father's Own Image of Man (Gen.1:26-27). It comes from Him, which is why the angels also have that image of man (Gen.19).

So when someone says 'man', Biblically that can mean either an angel or a flesh born man. As a matter of fact, the name Gabriel the Archangel means 'man of God'.

So when Rev.13 says the 2nd beast comes having two horns like a Lamb, it is pointing directly to the Role of Christ Jesus. And with it also saying he will speak as a dragon, it means Satan who is also called the "dragon" per Rev.12:9 (not Rev.10).

And once again, there is NO mention of the "false prophet" in that Revelation 13 Chapter. The false prophet is simply another title for the working of the Antichrist. And of course that working perishes when Jesus comes.

 

[Daniel 11:36]

Revelation

9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

3:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Salty]

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Except they will be people who come to Christ Jesus after the RAPTURE/SNATCHING AWAY/CHANGING IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE, or whatever you like to call it. I never get why people who actually think we are going through the Tribulation keeps making that same old tired argument. People can be SAVED after the Rapture, so why keep making that same argument ? It makes no sense to argue that point, it seems desperate.

I strongly disagree with that.

The so-called rapture ("caught up" of 1 Thess.4) only occurs at the very end of the great tribulation like Jesus showed in His Olivet discourse. It was the final sign He gave, and it's the final sign He gave in Rev.6, and Rev.11, and Rev.16 & 19. In Matt.24:29-31 is the 1 Thess.4 about the gathering of the "asleep" saints Jesus brings with Him. In the Mark 13:24-27 version it's about those "caught up" at the gathering of the saints.

Furthermore, in 1 Thess.5 and 2 Pet.3:10, Paul and Peter showed that the "thief in the night" event is when the "day of the Lord" happens. And the "day of the Lord" is shown by Peter to be the FINAL day of this present world. In Isaiah 13 it is shown to be the day of God's wrath upon the sinners.

In Rev.16:15, Jesus said He comes "as a thief", and He is warning His Church there to keep their garments. The next event there is the 7th Vial and Armageddon which is the final day of this world. That is not about some silly "tribulation saints" doctrine devised by men. It is about the event of Christ's coming on the 7th Vial to gather His Church.

Thus those on Darby's 1830's Pre-trib Rapture theory are just following a doctrine from men and not a doctrine written in God's Word.

 

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Verse 10 and 11 has nothing to do with the end time. Jesus was saying there that the gospel must be preached unto all the world by you, my disciples and others that you will disciple, then we see he instructs the disciples about how the coming HOLY GHOST will lead them and speak for them. The Abomination of Desolation comes in verse 14.

I disagree.

Since you've believed on a Pre-trib Rapture theory, it's easy to understand why you won't see the correct timing for that event. The idea of The Gospel being preached to all the world is given right into between two verses about Christ's elect being delivered up to give a Testimony, like the timing of God's two witnesses. Because you don't understand that's the timing it means you have not understood why Peter quoted from Joel 2 about the cloven tongue on Pentecost:

When Peter quoted Joel, he was saying the cloven tongue on Pentecost was an 'example'... of what was prophesied in Joel. If one studies the Joel 2 Scripture closely, it's about the time just PRIOR to the "day of the Lord", meaning the tribulation time. The true cloven tongue of Pentecost is what will manifest through Christ's elect when they are delivered up during the tribulation to give a Testimony for Christ. THAT... is when the whole world will hear The Gospel, because that Greek word for "publish" also can mean like a public herald (like what the town crier used to do in colonial days, standing on top of a box in the town square issuing the news or decrees). So when Jesus told His servants in the time to not premeditate what they will speak in that 'hour', that's because it will be The Holy Spirit speaking through them.

 

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

I find this an odd statement that you seem to use every time you disagree with someone about scriptures, so  be mindful, that many might see your thoughts as traditions of men also.

Totally irrelevant. I simply iterated that Jewish rabbi aren't the only ones making up traditions. The Pre-trib Rapture theory is a huge tradition of men that only began to be taught in the Church in the 1830's in Great Britain.

 

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The False Prophet is a Jew, that is what the bible says, (comes out of the Land). The words said would deceive the very ELECT IF THAT WERE POSSIBLE, tells me that it is not possible, as long as they have the Holy Spirit. It is only the DEVIL......we have witches that work Satan's magic on earth as we speak, this is not new stuff. Satan will be allowed to wield much power in the F.P. but that means very little. Only the naive will be deceived. They were warning the Jews, who will be on earth after the Rapture, except the Messianic Jews, of what to look for.

The idea of the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 coming up out of the "earth" (KJV) is about this one:

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
KJV

The idea of 'if it were possible' indeed is to show that Christ's elect cannot be deceived by that coming pseudo-Christ. But the point of giving that piece of info is to show how powerful a working of deception that pseudo-Christ is going to do. It doesn't mean as much to just say he will deceive the nations only. But to say he could almost... deceive Christ's Own which are sealed by The Holy Spirit, that is saying a whole... lot about how powerful of a deception that pseudo-Christ is going to do. It means what Paul taught in 2 Thess.2 about the falling away of many brethren that will believe that is our Lord Jesus.

Jesus isn't coming to rapture anyone prior to the tribulation. He showed in Scripture that He comes to gather His Church after the tribulation. Apostle Paul showed the same thing in 2 Thess.2 when he linked the "day of Christ" (which is actually "day of the Lord" per the Greek) with the day of Christ's gathering the Church.

 

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Jesus saying that the END PERIOD will be the GREATEST TROUBLE doesn't mean that he is saying all 2000 years is NOT TRIBULATIONS does it ? Thereby the confusion. Jess calls the end time period the greatest troubles, but all 2000 years are the tribulation of Christians. We live in Satan's world. There will be no shortening of the 7 Year Period. It was designed as a 7 year period to save human life, God built in the right time frame. God knows all but somehow had to REDESIGN His 7 year period. !! NOT.

When Jesus said this:

Matt 24:21-26
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be

KJV

... He was pointing to a very specific point in time. It was set with the placing of the "abomination of desolation". That has nothing to do with the fact that Christians through all centuries have been suffering persecutions by the wicked.

Yes, there will be a shortening of the final 1260 day period, for that's the period Jesus was talking about in Matt.24:22. Our Lord Jesus is Who said that, not me, so take that up with Him if you got a problem with it.

 

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Read the OP and you will see that Babylon is only a FALSE GOV. It might not be world wide, probably is, but it is FALSE GOV. The church will not go through it. So I am ready for the Rapture. 

My advice is to be prepared to make a stand for Christ Jesus just in case that pre-trib rapture don't happen. And I would love if it did happen, but I do not see it written anywhere in God's Word. I only see a gathering of the Church at the end of the tribulation like Jesus said in Matt.24 and Mark 13. The "day of the Lord" timing is specific on that too, so you might want to study up in the OT prophets on that event too.

 

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The Anti-Christ is in the world, I was shown that in a Vision in 1986. 

Satan is Anti-Christ.......................but he is not THE ANTI-CHRIST or Man of Sin, that is A MAN.

That reasoning just does not work, nor does it follow Scripture.

Like I've already shown, the image of man is also what the angels have, also the image Satan has, as God even called him a man in Isaiah 14. And the definition of Gabriel's name is 'man of God'.

Satan is THE Antichrist. Just as all chickens were patterned after the very first chicken God created, likewise Satan is the ORIGINAL ANTICHRIST that the "many antichrists" are patterned after. Satan also is the "man of sin" because he did the very first sin, even before Adam was created.

And once again, it's Biblical ignorance to imply the word 'man' can only mean one born in the flesh.

 

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

 

The Covenant is not a HOLY COVENANT, which only means Agreement, it is only HOLY when it is between God and men. A covenant between MEN and MEN is only and AGREEMENT BETWEEN MEN. 

Rev. 17:15 is not the Beast, it is the Harlot, they are two separate entities, as my OP states. 

 

Daniel says it is a Revived Fourth Beast.

The Anti-Christ is a Gentile, born in Greece. 

 

GOD BLESS..........

In Dan.11, the holy covenant there is the re-institution of the old covenant among the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, which is why they want to build another temple, which in turn means re-instituting the old covenant worship with sacrifices, etc. They already have the materials ready to do it, and the Sanhedrin, and Levitical priests, and the temple articles of worship ready. That is why Dan.11 is showing the existence of the daily sacrifice again, which is then replaced with the setting of the idol abomination that makes desolate.

 

[HAZARD]

On ‎2‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 4:06 PM, Salty said:

Pretty much Pharisee propaganda.

Granted the RCC has had its traditions of men like ALL religious systems on earth have, Christianity on the whole became widespread because of the RCC. The Protestant rebellion showed problems the RCC system had fallen to, but Rome still had a huge part in spreading The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

So those who keep trying to compare the RCC with the Babylon harlot of Revelation don't know what they are talking about, and pull out a lot old writings that contained fabrications in them even back to old times!

The oldest know religion of history indeed began in the area of Babylon, but it wasn't Babylon, it was Sumer. The Assyrian Tablets tell the history of the ancient Sumerians who lived a primitive lifestyle until Sargon I, a Semite, suddenly appeared among them, and gave them knowledge of agriculture, canal building, and built the first city there (Urech?). His death mask is in the British museum. The Assyrian tablets go on to reveal that he started the first religious worship of Bel, and they called him 'son of the dragon'. I strongly believe that was Cain, and ancient Sumer was the "land of Nod" of Genesis. In their records is also a parallel account of the creation (but it is a paganized version, mysterious and not understandable in parts).

It was Sumer when the "mystery school" type cult began. It continued to ancient Babylon and Assyria, and then to all the lands of history. Indeed the western pagan worship in pagan Rome, Greece, and Scandinavia were based on the old Baal worship.

And it's also true that the men of the "greater mysteries" that exist in control over the 'mystery schools' follow and worship Lucifer, while the lower members are not aware that's who they are being taught to follow and worship. Like God showed at the end of Genesis 3 that He would put emnity between the Seed of the Woman, and the devil's seed, that is still what all this is about today.

The harlot of Revelation 17 is a "great city" we are told in the very last verse. It is NOT a religious system.

The "great city" is Jerusalem we are shown in Revelation 11:8 where our Lord Jesus was crucified. Christ is giving a comparison about Jerusalem like the one The Father gave in Ezekiel 16 regarding Jerusalem falling to false worship and thus playing the spiritual harlot against Him. God even first mentions how Jerusalem was originally the pagan city Jebus, a possession of the pagan Jebusites which God told Israel to destroy in Deut.20.

For the end, when the pseudo-Messiah of Matt.24:23-26 shows up in Jerusalem, and initiates idol worship and does great signs, wonders, and miracles to fool those who will into worshiping him as God, that will cause the city of Jerusalem to become a pagan harlot city once again. Jerusalem has been sieged 27 times in history by the Gentiles, and Revelation 11:1-2 is showing us it will be sieged one final time at the end by the Gentiles, and their reign there will be for 42 months, the same time the dragon of Rev.13 is to have power over the saints.

Getting you to focus on Rome for the end is a Pharisee trick. It's purpose is to get you away from looking at the events getting ready to happen in Jerusalem for the end of this world, as Revelation actually shows.

 

 

"Pretty much Pharisee propaganda."

.

You think so? I believe the Word of God spells it out very clearly, you continue to believe whatever you like.

Genesis 10:8-10, And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.

V. 9, He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
   

V. 10, And the beginning of his kingdom was BABEL, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

Here we have the beginning of empires among men, not necessarily divine institutions guaranteeing law and order among men as ordained by God to Noah (Gen. 9), but achievements by lawless tyrants who taught men to revolt against divine laws and duly constituted authority.

The story of gen. 11 concerns happenings before this portion of Gen. 10 where we have eight great cities constituting the first two empires, Babylon and Assyria (V. 10-12).

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, Salty said:

The 2nd beast of Rev.13:11 is the Antichrist, and the same false one of Matt.24:23-26 and 2 Thess.2:3-4. Per the Greek, 'anti' can also mean 'instead of' or 'in place of'. And that's the main working by the coming Antichrist, he will play God in Jerusalem, and more specifically The Messiah (our Lord Jesus). The problem is, just how many will be deceived by him? For the orthodox Jews, they will accept him as the Messiah of Isaiah whom they still await today. For deceived Christian brethren, they will be told it's our Lord Jesus. And those of us Christians who refuse to fall for it will be persecuted even by our own deceived brethren, which is what Jesus' Message about brother betraying brother, father against son, and children against their parents causing them to be put to death (Mark 13:12 which is about the 5th Seal of Rev.6).

The beast and false prophet are just ROLES in a stage play that the Antichrist will play. Look at Dan.11 again. When it speaks of the "vile person" doing those things, all the way down to causing the placing of the abomination of desolation, he's the only one mentioned that fits the Antichrist role. There is no mention of a false prophet working with him side-by-side there. It's the Antichrist only.

The first Beast matches Daniel 7 and 8. He speaks Blasphemies, he has power to overcome the Saints, he has the Lion, Bear and Leopard intermingled in his being. The False Prophet sets up an Image of the Beast in the Temple, and DEMANDS ALL to Worship him, great and small. Rev. 10:20 clearly shows they are men, and are IN HELL awaiting Satan/Devil. Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. { The Beast and False Prophet are IN HELL together, they are REAL MEN, and Satan gets thrown in after the 1000 years of being in the pit, after hes released. }

8 hours ago, Salty said:

And like I had already shown, no flesh man will be judged and sentenced to perish in the "lake of fire" until AFTER the 1,000 years reign of Christ. That means the beast and false prophet are offices, and not actual flesh men.

 

That is not what Rev. and Daniel says. And it is very clear. PAY ATTENTION HERE 100% concrete proof that the Anti-Christ and False Prophet are cast straight into hell. 

Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, (All of Them) and the Ancient of days (Jesus) did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. 11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Notice, the Anti-Christ/Man/Little Horn is cast straight into hell as soon as he is defeated, BUT....As per the other Beasts, their lives were prolonged even after their dominion was taken away, MEANING....Babylon was still a place that Alexander the Great lived in up until his death, Persia is still around (Iran) as is Greece, and Rome/Italy, they are just not BEAST POWERS....Hence their lives were prolonged for a Season and a Time, but the Beast was killed and sent to the Burning Flame !! Does Revelation match up with this?

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. { It MATCHES perfectly brother } ... The Beast and False Prophet are cast straight into hell. 

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, Salty said:

Only in comic books and Hollywood movies, because what God's Word is talking about is the Antichrist working miracles on the level our Lord Jesus would do. Haven't seen much of that lately, and I still recognize our Heavenly Father and His Son and The Holy Spirit still work miracles today. But not the writhing in the floor making animal noises, laughing uncontrollably, type of stuff some claim is from The Holy Spirit. Those same types of manifestations happen in eastern religions also, which ought to raise a huge... question mark in the mind of the devout Christian.

 

The Holy Spirit works miracles as He will, the Spirit of God on a person will make you drunk, just like the bible says. And there are Witches, Warlocks etc. etc. , don't kid yourself. 

 

8 hours ago, Salty said:

As for demons not manifesting on earth with the image of man, you're wrong about that too. Remember king Saul going to the witch that conjured up the dead spirit of the prophet Samuel? That witch had a familiar spirit, and that's what king Saul saw, not the real spirit of Samuel.

 

You are quoting me wrong. I said they do not have physical bodies. Humans in the SPIRIT can see them, if they understand Spiritual things and are close to God or even if they are close to Satan. They are just in a different dimension.

 

8 hours ago, Salty said:

Since "their place" is no more found in heaven when that happens, what do you think that means? It's simple if one sticks to God's Word. Per The Bible there's only TWO different dimensions of existence, this earthly one and the heavenly one. Even hell and the bottomless pit is in the heavenly dimension this verse shows. It's just in a place of separation, which is why it is compared to a prison in God's Word.

So if Satan is booted out of the heavenly, his place in the heavenly no more found, then what other... place is left for him to go? In OUR dimension, this earthly dimension WE live in.

He cannot be booted to earth and stay in the heavenly dimension, because that would mean he stil has a place in heaven, albeit a place of separation like in the earth, if you will. It's important to understand the difference between the two dimensions in God's Word to grasp this.

He is not coming only, but his angels are coming with Him. This is why Jesus said it will be just like the days of Noah.

 

Demons are on earth now..............