Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit

[yomotalking]

If what you say is true:

It appears to me that accusing Benny Hinn, Petra, Robert Tilton, Jimmy Swaggart, DC Talk, or anyone else of being of the Devil is exactly what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is, because who does totally know the mind of the Spirit?

Then what about the recent :

"Exposing Benny Hinn as a false prophet" Threads on Worthy???????????????????

Do you think that is blasphmey of the Holy Spirit????????????

That's just sounds SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest wilburnh]

Like I said Shiloh, we both agree that a Christian would not commit the sin, but I believe that an individual who was, hence not anymore, a Christian could commit this sin and would indeed be easier to commit since they would know the work of the Holy Spirit.

If you take what they and He said in context, you'll see that they were not referring to Jesus and He seperated Himself from the Holy Spirit. While they did say that He had an unclean spirit, it was the focus they put on the Holy Spirit that was the damnable sin and not the focus on Christ himself. If you look at the mirror passage in Mathew 12:31-32 you'll see that vs thirty-one corresponds with Mark 3:29 and that verse thirty-two gives better light to your use of mark 3:30. Here is the passage according to Mathew:

"31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

Verse thirty-two clearly shows that anyone who speaks against the Holy Ghost, I do believe that he means anyone here, it shall not be forgiven them. I really don't see what the problem is with this. It seems pretty clear cut however, I only have one set of eyes. Please show me what your see.

God bless

Calvin

[Guest wilburnh]

As concerning Benny Hinn I know nothing of allegations, but I do know that we are to judge the fruit of everyone who claims to be coming to us from God (messengers/preachers I'm including in this group). People are fallible, this theme is seen many times throughout the Bible so we are to be ever vigilant concerning the conduct of people. I do not believe that this is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit because you are not addressing the Spirit but the individuals actions. However, if you're watching tv and you see someone get healed and you say that it is the work of the devil, I think that this could be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit if it indeed is the work of the Holy Spirit.

Hope that made sense. Just trying to make clear that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost and judging an individuals fruits are not the same thing.

God bless

calvin

[Guest Ineedahug]

not read through all the posts so sorry if someone already said this-but I thought blaphemy against the Holy Spirit is when you've previously accepted Christ but then choose to reject Him. (though I like the idea that it's attributing Christ's works to satan.)

[Guest wilburnh]

You may be referring to Hebrews 6. While this passage is dealing with someone who rejects Christ, it is seperate from blasphemy of the Holy Spirit because the tense of the scripture (aortic) enables the individual to come back once they have changed their lifestyle. Just please read the passage in Mathew 12 that discusses the blasphemy. I think it explains it the best.

God bless

calvin

[Guest shiloh357]

Like I said Shiloh, we both agree that a Christian would not commit the sin, but I believe that an individual who was, hence not anymore, a Christian could commit this sin and would indeed be easier to commit since they would know the work of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, but that is not what we have been discussing. I am saying that a Christian cannot commit this sin because the context for it to take place, does not exist.

Jesus is not on earth physically casting out devils. That is the only context in which it appears and you CANNOT try to describe possible scenarios OUTSIDE the context given in Scripture.

Furthermore, assuming that a person can lose their salvation, they would no longer be a Christian, and if they committed this sin, it does not hurt my position at all since I am saying a Christian CANNOT commit this sin. You simply cannot provide a Scriptural platform to show Christians committing blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That is the issue at hand. There is much the Bible would say if it were possible.

[Guest wilburnh]

Next to what Christ did on the cross, I would say that salvation is the most important subject discussed in the Bible. Does it ever say implicitly that one can not lose their salvation? Does it ever say without any doubt that you can? Both of the answers to this question is no. So, is there an answer to this subject? obviously there is but how do we go about coming to this solution? We read scripture and read into what certain passages say by taking the Bible as a whole to deduce the meaning of a few. This analogy is akin to blasphemy because many people only use the scripture in mark to prove that only people in that time (Jesus's time) could commit blasphemy; however in mathew we see a much more precise description given. Here in mathew we see Jesus seperate what the scribes said concerning Christ and what they said concerning the Spirit.

I would like to retract what I said earlier about believing that only a sinner, whether past christian or not, can commit this sin. I do believe that it would be hard for a christian to commit and would probably be on their way to rejecting Christ, but I don't see that it is not possible according to these few scriptures.

I think what has to be seen is that Jesus seperates the affront that he suffered by the scribes from the affront to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is working today so it is still possible to blaspheme him (remember the separation). Since all scripture is given for reproof and such, I really do not see the purpose of having it in scripture if it can not be used for doctrine by us. While this is not a strong leg to stand on in the least (because it is completely without scripture), it does have credence if one uses the line of reasoning that you seem to be using.

God bless

calvin

[Guest shiloh357]

Next to what Christ did on the cross, I would say that salvation is the most important subject discussed in the Bible.  Does it ever say implicitly that one can not lose their salvation?  Does it ever say without any doubt that you can?  Both of the answers to this question is no.  So, is there an answer to this subject?  obviously there is but how do we go about coming to this solution?  We read scripture and read into what certain passages say by taking the Bible as a whole to deduce the meaning of a few.  This analogy is akin to blasphemy because many people only use the scripture in mark to prove that only people in that time (Jesus's time) could commit blasphemy; however in mathew we see a much more precise description given.  Here in mathew we see Jesus seperate what the scribes said concerning Christ and what they said concerning the Spirit.

I would like to retract what I said earlier about believing that only a sinner, whether past christian or not, can commit this sin.  I do believe that it would be hard for a christian to commit and would probably be on their way to rejecting Christ, but I don't see that it is not possible according to these few scriptures.

I think what has to be seen is that Jesus seperates the affront that he suffered by the scribes from the affront to the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is working today so it is still possible to blaspheme him (remember the separation).  Since all scripture is given for reproof and such, I really do not see the purpose of having it in scripture if it can not be used for doctrine by us.  While this is not a strong leg to stand on in the least (because it is completely without scripture), it does have credence if one uses the line of reasoning that you seem to be using.

God bless

calvin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think we need to nail down exactly how YOU define blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I have seen many people extend that definition to questioning certain religious leaders and calling into question the source for the "manifestations" that they attribute to God.

Depending how a person defines it, it will determine whether they think a Christian can commit such a sin.

[Gerioke]

According to Webster's dictionary -

Blasphemy = profane abuse of God, (or Holy Spirit in this case.)

Caluminate = to slander

Calumny = slander

Contumacy = disobedience

Contumely = haughty rudeness

I think we should remember that there will be those who are rejected by God and they will not understand why. 

Matthew 7:21-23 (New American Standard Bible) (NASB)

   

  21  "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

  22  "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

  23  "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

I am not going to attempt to interpret this Scripture for you, and I would like to hear what others think it means to them.

Another Scripture I think many overlook is this one -

Hebrews 10 - Christ or Judgment

  26  For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

  27  but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

  28  Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

  29  How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

35  Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.

36  For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

      37  FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE,

        HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.

      38  BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH;

        AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

  39  But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

To me this Scripture does not support the, "Once saved always saved," doctrine, but I do not judge those who do believe in this way.  I do not know for sure, that is why I look after myself, to make sure I do not continue in sin, and repent when I do sin.  I also ask God to bring my sin to attention, so that I might recognize it and deal with it accordingly.

We also have this Scripture -  Hebrews 6 - which I think you have already discussed.

  4  For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

  5  and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

  6  and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

I find it very difficult to believe that anyone can know the goodness of God, has accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior, yet choose to return back to their unsaved state, but this Scripture apparently confirms that this can happen.

So, perhaps this is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

Personally, I see where this can be the blasphemy spoken of in Scripture, but I also question those who pass judgment onto others, Ie. as in the case of the mentioned Benny Hinn.  Granted, we must test the spirits, as outlined in 1 John 4,

but many times I believe people are jealous of the anointing and power another may have and they speak out against this person because of envy and jealousy.

I do not do that, because what if someone like Hinn is called and used by God, yet in my unfair judgment I condemn him and his ministry?  Could that not also be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?  When we judge christian rock groups or controversial ministers, accusing them of being of the devil, is that not similar to what the pharisees did to Jesus?

I think it would take tremendous anointing to be able to stand in the place of judging others and warning christians of their misdeeds or false ministries.  We already know that if it is not of God they cannot stand.  They will be here today and gone tomorrow, for only that which is of God lasts.  Yet today there are so many christians who ignore the Scripture, "Judge not, lest ye be judged," and they go around spreading their personal opinions of ministers, christian singers, or groups and others who do not meet their own criteria of what they think God wants, or those God can and will use.  I have more concern for those who continually ridicule that which they do not understand than I do for the ones whom

they judge.  I do not like to hear that, when someone pretends they know who is and is not used by God, or who is or is not working for God, a faithful servant, for I myself have been accused of being a heretic, walking in error, and not of God.

I would just like to urge everyone, yes, even those saved, to be so very careful about avoiding the temptation to judge and accuse others.  It is such a difficult walk to be in love and in the Spirit, and we all often fall down when it comes to thinking that we are perfect and we are right, when we could actually be wrong, yet totally blind to that fact.  We are all to, "Work out our own salvation with trembling and fear...."  I have found that doing this keeps me too  busy to worry about your salvation, your walk, and if you are serving God the way I think you should.  I often wonder why we cannot see that God uses the very thing we think He cannot or would not use.  We must be reminded that God WILL use " the base things of this world to confound the wise," so let us not be so wise in our own eyes that we miss what God is trying to tell us.

It appears to me that accusing Benny Hinn, Petra, Robert Tilton, Jimmy Swaggart, DC Talk or anyone else of being of the devil is exactly what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is, because who does totally know the mind of the Spirit?  He can and will use whom and what He choses, and it is nothing to us, as Jesus said, "What is that to you?"  This He said when someone was disturbed because Jesus had chosen one that didn't meet the world's standards as one who would be used by God.

This does happen often, and I am deeply concerned that the church is quite guilty of thinking we know who is or isn't as they should be, often over-looking our own short-comings and sins.  May we live by faith pleasing God, amen.

Shalom, PrairWarur

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This concept concerns me because I do struggle with re-occurring sins

I don't feel the love for the lord that others seem to have.(compassion)

Idon't witness much because most people around here don't want to here it.

In short if it were really as easy as some people believe(ie: you can't lose your salvation, ya just gotta believe etc.) wouldn't there be more sinners jumping on the band wagon?

[Guest shiloh357]

This concept concerns me because I do struggle with re-occurring sins

I don't feel the love for the lord that others seem to have.(compassion)

Idon't witness much  because most  people around here don't want to here it.

In short if  it were really as easy as some people believe(ie: you can't lose your salvation, ya just gotta believe etc.) wouldn't there be more sinners jumping on the band wagon?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

None of that constitutes Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit amounts to knowingly calling the Holy Spirit a demon and attributing his works as being demonic in origin. Specifically it refers to the work the Holy Spirit was doing through Jesus. It is something done in full knowledge that one is Blaspheming.

What is happening to you is common to many Christians. You are going through a dry spell, a wilderness experience. We all have times when don't feel as close to the Lord as we should, and our desire for Spiritual things wane for a season. That is a common experience.

And to answer your questions... no, unbelievers would not jump on the bandwagon no matter how easy it is. The prefer darkness.