Do Pastors need a gun?

[Your closest friendnt]

 The guidance in the scriptures is not to tempt your Lord God.

I think this guidance is not given to just anyone, of course not to those who take care and do not neglect themselves , and make sure to provide for their families and for the security of their loved ones. 

No just praying, but having a job, be good workers, having locks in their home-door, and street proofing their children. 

No one will ever advice their children, you can talk to strangers, accept their flattery words, and their gifts, and if they project themselves as a model agents, and suggest they need to photo ......hope no one say this is a blessing from the Lord, and I have found favor with God and people .

For God want's us to have a sound mind, faith is faith and we need to pray of how to develop a sound mind, if not it becomes a double sword and can harm the one who is swinging the sword , faith is also like a boomerang ,it can hurt the thrower , 

We must understand the games of the devil, one of them is taking risk and testing the Lord.

That's what the devil try to do to JESUS , make him use his faith, according to scripture, and Jesus knew how God love him, and the devil tried to take advantage of God's promises for protection . 

[Sharnadeen]

11 minutes ago, The_Patriot2016 said:

You didn't answer the question. Yes or no. If a pastor gets gunned down, does that mean he lacked faith?

The short answer to your question is No; But my main point is that the weapon that he needs to fight against an attack or to prevent it in the first place is not of the flesh but of the spirit. The Father could also bring the misfortune on him but in either case a physical weapon is futile in any battle if he doesn't pray first and foremost. 

[Guest shiloh357]

6 hours ago, Sharnadeen said:

You can have a firearm and the powers of the spirit prevent it from going off as you have planned. Bottomline, if the powers of the spirit have the final say in all things, why not just leave it up to God to be your personal body guard by making intercessions?

If you applied that kind of irresponsible logic to any other context in life, the result would be disastrous.

1. Why buy fire insurance for your house?  Why not just leave it up to God to protect your house and belongings from a fire by making intercessions?

2. Why buy health insurance for your children?  Why not just leave it up to "Dr. Jesus"  to keep your kids healthy?

3.  Why buy car insurance?   Why not leave it up to God to keep you out of accidents through intercessions?

4.  Why eat healthy?  Shouldn't we just leave up to God to change the molecular structure of our food, so that Cheetos and Dr. Pepper turn into carrots and spring water when we ingest them?

I'm sorry, but your approach is just absurd.

Where in the Bible does it say that "the powers of the spirit have the final say in all things?"   From where are you deriving that assumption and what do you mean by the phrase, "powers of the spirit?"

Why would God stop you from defending yourself or your family from an attacker?  How would the rape and/or murder of your family advance God's kingdom agenda?

Where does the Bible make the case that God as our defender precludes us from taking measures to defend ourselves?

What doctrines in Scripture does a pastor having a gun for self-defense, violate?  Is there a commandment to pastors in the Bible that armed pastors are disregarding?  Are they being disobedient to God for owning and carrying a fire arm for self defense and if so, please provide the relevant Scriptures for review.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Sharnadeen said:

The short answer to your question is No; But my main point is that the weapon that he needs to fight against an attack or to prevent it in the first place is not of the flesh but of the spirit. The Father could also bring the misfortune on him but in either case a physical weapon is futile in any battle if he doesn't pray first and foremost. 

God doesn't promise that we will not encounter danger if we pray hard enough or long enough.  That aspect of prayer is necessary and vital, but it is presumptuous to assume that we don't need to take practical measures, as well, to defend self, family and property.

You seem to put owning a gun on the same level as a lack of faith in God.   It's either own a gun or trust God to defend you as if the two are mutually exclusive concepts.

David's sling was used by God to defeat Goliath.  David having a sling and stones didn't represent a lack of faith in God.  Rather, they became instruments in God's hand in the defeat of evil.   If anything the praying pastor who trains with his weapon, who cleans it and stores it properly and carries it responsibly can be a force for good in God's hand.   God can empower him and use his weapon for His purposes and glory just like He used a little shepherd boy and the weapon he carried on his belt.

[Neighbor]

6 hours ago, Sharnadeen said:

Ok just to clarify, I said the Lord's Angels will suffice. The Lord's angels operate when we give them something to work with, and that it through prayer. Having faith without praying is futile. It is possible for an Apostle, Pastor and any leader to be armed if He does not Pray. So as it relates to your argument regarding Apostles being gunned down, it is highly possible that they did not cover themselves prior to the attack. The title that anyone wears in the body of Christ, does not guarantee one's protection. But prayer does...always....and in that way the Lord's angels do suffice.

Hi,

Will you please flesh out the reason(s) you  state that the Lord's Angels will suffice and that prayer guarantees ? What has led you to that conclusion so solidly that you state it as fact?

 I am at this time thinking of the nine dead at the conclusion of the attack on the Emanuel AME Church at Charleston, where the pastor Rev. Pinckney was murdered along with the wife of the now replacement pastor- did they not pray?  What prayer might they have lacked, or how should they have better prayed that might have prevented the attack?

The survivors of that attack have  become strong witnesses of the faith of Jesus! They have led  some grief therapy for the survivors  of the attack at Orlando too. Seems to me that bad things do happen to even the finest of prayer warriors, even the most perfect of us in prayer,  for many of us are used by our creator in a manner that makes what is intended by bad people demons and Satan for bad, to be purposeful for good.

God said very directly to Satan have you not considered my servant Job. He declared Job to be the most perfect of servants. And then Job suffered greatly at the work of Satan. That work is perhaps the oldest written record of  God's awesome power and His sovereignty over all matters. His perfect knowledge turning evil to good purpose, using Job's plight to enlighten  mankind through centuries.

 

 I think our perfect protection is  to be found in the certainty of eternal life with our Lord  in perfected spiritual bodies. I'm not so sure as you are that  prayer  will provide perfect protection  for my corruptible body of flesh.

So I will really enjoy reading  some more about your  conviction regarding the matter.

Thanks.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Neighbor
completed an incomplete sentence- to clarify but not change it's intent.

[Guest shiloh357]

5 hours ago, Sharnadeen said:

 

 

The Almighty gave us the spiritual tools that we need. Man made the physical ones....His words reassures me that I don't need the manmade tools....and yes I am aware that it is He who gave us the knowledge to make them in the first place but it is usually a person who does not walk in authority and power of the Holy Spirit who feels a need to use these weapons. Our weapons are not in the flesh....seriously....

You don't need man-made tools?  You don't need a car or a job or house?   You don't need a doctor or a dentist?  You will just sit back and expect God to simply drop everything in your lap?   Where exactly does the Bible say you don't need "manmade tools?"

Is the fact that we have law enforcement proof that we lack faith?  Is it wrong for country to have a military?  Is that a lack of faith?

You draw a false dichotomy between owning a weapon and trusting God.   What you're promoting is presumption and that is what Jesus said we are not to do.   "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God."   Tempting God means presumptuously putting Him to the test.  It's why Jesus did not tempt God the Father by throwing himself down to the ground simply because the Bible says in Psalm 91 that the angels will bear you up and will not allow your foot to be dashed against stone.

You're promoting misguided presumption, not faith.

[Guest Robert]

5 hours ago, Sharnadeen said:

You can have a firearm and the powers of the spirit prevent it from going off as you have planned. Bottomline, if the powers of the spirit have the final say in all things, why not just leave it up to God to be your personal body guard by making intercessions?

(Yes, I am breaking my self-imposed silence; but this has gotten ridiculous)

 

The Word of God has the final say, which comes from God and the Spirit is not going to contradict. And His word says this:

"Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor. " (Romans 13:1-6, NASB, emphasis mine)

According to what you have said, having a weapon is failing to trust in God to "intercede" for you in matters of physical protection. Were that the case, then Law Enforcement and the military would be defying God by taking up arms in defense of the population. But as clearly shown here, no such thing is implied. Or is God now interfering with the operation of their weapons?

And what of those shot at Emanuel AME Church at Charleston as Neighbor pointed out? Were they somehow deficient in their faith because they died? Why did He not interfere with Dylan Roof's weapon?

You may want to think about it before you claim "it was a lack of faith or prayer": Jeremiah 17:9 csays God alone knows men's hearts: do you?

Can you measure faith with a "meter"?

People who claim "Just have faith and God will protect you" neglect the part of faith that requires us to use the brains God gave us to start with, and deal with common sense. When Jesus first sent the disciples out to heal, it was to test their faith and whether they would rely upon Him or not. But when that was over and they ate at the Passover, the Lord gave them new instructions. After those instructions, Jesus gave them a preview of what times would be like for those who went out in the church age::

“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you." (Matthew 10:16-20, NASB, emphasis mine)

Jesus was not a moron, and neither did He expect His disciples to be; He expected them to use common sense, and the Lord expects that of us too as of today. Our faith is not a blind trust that simply accepts because we like what we hear or because we are "told to do so"; we trust because what we have heard from Scripture has been proven in our hearts. And many times in the NT, Scripture tells us to be wise in our dealings with people and in situations.

One last thing to consider in the matter of self-defense: The Lord entrusts us with the care of our loved ones. We care for them emotional, spiritually and physically as well. If you saw your son or daughter in the roadway with a car about to hit them, I severely doubt you are going to stand there and hope the Lord keeps them from harm! You're going to run out and grab them, yelling and waving as hard as you can to intervene.

If we are simply going to say "I'll pray and the Lord will care for their safety" when there are things we should be doing to protect them, then why is the Lord entrusting those loved ones to you in the first place, if you will not care for them?

 

That's not care; that's a betrayal of trust.  And God takes that VERY SERIOUSLY.

 

Think on that very carefully before you answer.

 

Some further reading for you:

And with that, I return to my isolation.

[Guest shiloh357]

6 hours ago, Sharnadeen said:

Ok just to clarify, I said the Lord's Angels will suffice. The Lord's angels operate when we give them something to work with, and that it through prayer. Having faith without praying is futile. It is possible for an Apostle, Pastor and any leader to be armed if He does not Pray. So as it relates to your argument regarding Apostles being gunned down, it is highly possible that they did not cover themselves prior to the attack. The title that anyone wears in the body of Christ, does not guarantee one's protection. But prayer does...always....and in that way the Lord's angels do suffice.

Where in the Bible does it guarantee that prayer will keep pastors or anyone, for that matter safe from harm?  Where does it guarantee angelic protection just because you pray?

This is along the lines of those who were told that if they prayed and had enough faith, they could throw away their medications.   Highly irresponsible.

[da_man1974]

So what if a guy is a cop and a part time pastor?  Dhould he wear a gun doing his cop work?

[The_Patriot21]

8 hours ago, Sharnadeen said:

The short answer to your question is No; But my main point is that the weapon that he needs to fight against an attack or to prevent it in the first place is not of the flesh but of the spirit. The Father could also bring the misfortune on him but in either case a physical weapon is futile in any battle if he doesn't pray first and foremost. 

And my answer to that is that God no longer sends fire down from heaven or uses angels to strike people down. He uses people to fulfill his will, including protecting others. If you don't want to carry a gun that is fine, I respect that. But I won't be giving up mine any time soon.