other one Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,321 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,076 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Mike 2 said: 1Sa 28:13 The king told her, "Don't be afraid; but what do you see?" The woman told Saul, "I see a divine being coming up out of the ground." 1Sa 28:14 Saul told her, "What does he look like?" She said, "An old man is coming up, and he's wrapped in a robe." Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed low to the ground and prostrated himself. Saul didn't see anything but someone claiming to see something.....seems he got completely sucked in Oh, yeah.... LoL like some demon would tell Saul the things that Samuel told him... and later than you quote it says that Samuel told him things...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, other one said: Oh, yeah.... LoL like some demon would tell Saul the things that Samuel told him... and later than you quote it says that Samuel told him things...... I think you are assuming that Samuel talked directly to Saul or that Saul saw Samuel, but I read it as Samuel talking through the medium. I didn't say that it was a demon I just said that Saul did not see Samuel, you are the one assuming it is a demon. People often come away after seeing a medium saying the person that was called up spoke to them when the person called up actually spoke through the medium. A medium is that which something goes through. By getting sucked in I meant he totally believed whatever was coming out of the mediums mouth. There is a reason God doesn't want us messing with them no doubt it is partly to do with what they say, whether by hook or by crook sometimes comes to pass. This definitely is a unique passage in the bible, I'm not claiming to understand it any more than what I have said here. Since you brought it up here's some food for thought; It occurs to me to add this verse already referred to in this chain 2Co 11:14 And no wonder, since Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 2Co 11:15 So it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their doom will match their deeds! What are the limits Satan has as "an angel of light" or how his servants appear? Do we know? Satan had a pretty good understanding of scripture when talking to Jesus in the desert....could he have known about the situation between Saul and God and Samuel's involvement in that? If God sees the practice of mediums as detestable why would he then use them as a way of speaking on his behalf and legitimize them to man as a way of communicating with him? Kinda hypocritical isn't it? All just food for thought. Edited January 25, 2017 by Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,321 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,076 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 27 minutes ago, Mike 2 said: I think you are assuming that Samuel talked directly to Saul or that Saul saw Samuel, but I read it as Samuel talking through the medium. I didn't say that it was a demon I just said that Saul did not see Samuel, you are the one assuming it is a demon. People often come away after seeing a medium saying the person that was called up spoke to them when the person called up actually spoke through the medium. A medium is that which something goes through. By getting sucked in I meant he totally believed whatever was coming out of the mediums mouth. There is a reason God doesn't want us messing with them no doubt it is partly to do with what they say, whether by hook or by crook sometimes comes to pass. This definitely is a unique passage in the bible, I'm not claiming to understand it any more than what I have said here. I did not say it was a demon, I was saying it couldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, other one said: I did not say it was a demon, I was saying it couldn't be. I'm still stuck with ...why would God say not to consult with mediums and then communicate through one? Something is just not adding up in the passage. Maybe we are making an assumption and missing the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, other one said: Oh, yeah.... LoL like some demon would tell Saul the things that Samuel told him... and later than you quote it says that Samuel told him things...... I have met you on one other post and am just getting to know you. I feel that as part of the process of getting to know you I have to let you know that I find your sarcasm belittling. I won't belabor it and bring it up again but I need to let you know how I feel. From what I have read I believe you are an intelligent person that may not share the same views I do but there is no reason to insult me when you disagree. I want to encourage you to continue to challenge my thoughts so that I can grow in understanding, but please do it with respect. Edited January 25, 2017 by Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,321 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,076 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Mike 2 said: I'm still stuck with ...why would God say not to consult with mediums and then communicate through one? Something is just not adding up in the passage. Maybe we are making an assumption and missing the truth. Quote 1 Sam 28:15-17 15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me, and God has departed from me and answers me no more, either through prophets or by dreams; therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do." 16 And Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the Lord has departed from you and has become your adversary? NASB A lot of people try to use human logic to try and understand why God goes things...... but some of us just accept what the Bible says and goes on with it... I find it refreshing that He can do things on very special occasions that go beyond the normal way of things..... and I don't find it hard to grasp that with God nothing is impossible when it suits his agenda. All 23 translations in my Biblesoft program very plainly states that it was Samuel that said this, not some impostor. When you start questioning scripture that is so plainly said, one starts to question the Word itself. But we all have free will to judge Gods word as we wish, and here at worthy (with limits) we are free to express those judgments as we see them. So carry on with your thoughts, and I will mine.... but it is healthy to poke a little fun at things we are surprised to hear people say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 It is important to realize that God doesn't compromise His holiness. God is not going to condemn the practice of divination/witchcraft and then turn around and employ it for His service. The holiness of God's nature precludes Him from having anything to do with this incident in that God was not speaking through the spirit of Samuel who was conjured up by a witch. The witch said she saw the spirit of Samuel as an old man in a robe. She saw Samuel in life and was simply describing how she knew him in life. That should be a tip off that something is amiss. Yet, the text tells us that Samuel was speaking. So how do we reconcile this? First of all, the writers in the Bible tell us what they saw or heard. There is a lot of phenomenological language in Scripture and the writers simply record what they saw or heard. From the vantage point of Saul, the spirit of Samuel was speaking through the witch and that is how the story is recorded. Saul thought it really was Samuel and the evil spirit impersonated Samuel. The stuff the demon said, most of it Saul already knew and it had been told to him by Samuel when Samuel was alive. This was not brand new information. The Bible does not inform us that God was in any way complicit with this event. That has been penciled in by others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,321 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,076 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 and once again we disagree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 4 hours ago, shiloh357 said: It is important to realize that God doesn't compromise His holiness. God is not going to condemn the practice of divination/witchcraft and then turn around and employ it for His service. The holiness of God's nature precludes Him from having anything to do with this incident in that God was not speaking through the spirit of Samuel who was conjured up by a witch. The witch said she saw the spirit of Samuel as an old man in a robe. She saw Samuel in life and was simply describing how she knew him in life. That should be a tip off that something is amiss. Yet, the text tells us that Samuel was speaking. So how do we reconcile this? First of all, the writers in the Bible tell us what they saw or heard. There is a lot of phenomenological language in Scripture and the writers simply record what they saw or heard. From the vantage point of Saul, the spirit of Samuel was speaking through the witch and that is how the story is recorded. Saul thought it really was Samuel and the evil spirit impersonated Samuel. The stuff the demon said, most of it Saul already knew and it had been told to him by Samuel when Samuel was alive. This was not brand new information. The Bible does not inform us that God was in any complicit with this event. That has been penciled in by others. Saved me a post in support Lev_19:31 "You are to consult neither mediums nor familiar spirits. You are never to seek them—you'll just be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God. Lev_20:6 "I'll oppose and eliminate from contact with his people whoever consults mediums or familiar spirits, thereby committing spiritual prostitution with them. Something is just not right with the interaction in the Samuel passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,321 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,076 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 so you think that God would allow the Word to say that Samuel said something when it wasn't Samuel that said it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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