Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 24, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2017 55 minutes ago, Keras said: The Greek word 'oudeis' means 'no one'. Man is not meant by that word and it is angels that live in heaven with God. and I don't answer Marcus rants. The operable word is GO - in the Greek Active Voice. That means, rabbi keras, that no one has the ability to transport themselves to Heaven. Except Jesus. And you do respond to my posts, as evidenced by your many replies in which you quote me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: The operable word is GO - in the Greek Active Voice. That means, rabbi keras, that no one has the ability to transport themselves to Heaven. Except Jesus. And you do respond to my posts, as evidenced by your many replies in which you quote me. Yes, Marcus, its because I'm bored; mow the lawn, weed the garden, sit at the computer and the days go by! Hey; try sky diving, maybe gravity will be suspended for you. But regarding John 3:13, I looked up the Scripture Analyzer and it shows that no one ascends to heaven, except the One who came from there. Two rapture refutations: no human goes there and only He who came from heaven can go back. The rapture teaching is a scam of the first magnitude, a Satanic lie designed to fool millions. Why not believe what the Bible actually does say God has planned for our future? I look forward to the great blessing promised by God to His Christian people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 25, 2017 4 hours ago, eileenhat said: Truly, when would ANY true Christian lose faith in God? No Christian strong in their faith will lose it. But, sadly their are many 'lukewarm' Church goers, who will renounce God when disaster comes. Especially those who have been taught they have put enough money into the plate for a ticket to heaven. My advice to everyone; is to believe what the Bible actually says. Be wary of ANY teacher who uses inference and supposition to make a doctrine that isn't clearly scriptural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Keras said: regarding John 3:13, I looked up the Scripture Analyzer and it shows that no one ascends to heaven, except the One who came from there. Two rapture refutations: no human goes there and only He who came from heaven can go back. This is foolish. A Scripture "Analyzer..." Yeah, right. The GREEK verb VOICE is what determines WHO CAN go to Heaven -ON THEIR OWN. It is in the ACTIVE VOICE. That means no ONE CAN TAKE THEMSELVES to Heaven. except the one who has come from Heaven: Jesus! Analyze that... and you might educate yourself and correct your ignorant take on it which you refuse to change because you hope to prove the Rapture - which is in the Bible - is not possible. You are fighting against Scripture, and so I fight your un-Biblical attack which is a damper on the blessed hope some hold on to dearly. How dare you trample that which Paul says we are to encourage each other. Some are not strong, and you act as a wolf to them. How dare you. In the active voice we take ourselves to Heaven. "I drove to work." ACTIVE VOICE In the passive voice we are taken to Heaven. "I was driven to work" PASSIVE VOICE We cannot go (by our power) to Heaven. However, - that fact negates nothing about the Rapture -- when Jesus TAKES US to Heaven. As Jesus is the only One who can GO to Heaven on His Own - as evidenced by His appearances and disappearances after His Resurrection and the final Ascension - He is eminently qualified to TAKE us to Heaven. In that case, we are not doing the action, but Jesus is. You really are stuck on being quite ignorant about what the original language says which adds detail not found in your down-under English analyzer. Now we have been over this time and time again, perhaps eight times now - and you STILL remain ignorant of an important aspect of exegesis: the original language. Your misuse of language and willful ignorance which you could study and learn - then is turned back with much animosity on a mission to destroy a tenant of the Bible: the Rapture. As you are now setting yourself against God, you will fail. You are in error and you are not wise enough to take instruction - so you are doubly ill-suited to give instruction. I suggest you adopt a sheep-attitude and humble yourself to learn the Word and not attack it. Edited January 25, 2017 by Marcus O'Reillius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 1.00 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 On 1/22/2017 at 2:50 PM, missmuffet said: 1 Thessalonians 4:13:18 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 I have had this scenario playing in my head lately. It is merely speculation but it has been a mind tickler. The rapture of the Church occurs. Not many go in the rapture of the Church. The people who remain on earth are angry and are in denial because they did not go and refuse to believe that the disappearance was actually the rapture of the Church. Then here comes the Antichrist. He will have a couple of very convincing lies and most will believe those lies of what happened to those who disappeared. These people will be deceived and that will only be the beginning. Isn't this pretty much the premise of the left behind series? Also, regardless of when you think the rapture is (and i don't think it is before the tribulation) the bible says that the anti-Christ will perform signs and lying wonders. Presumably this involves supernatural events or at least events that are perceived as supernatural. 2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 2Th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. You can also see from above that the act of rejecting Christ is precisely what opens one up to the influence of the "power, signs, and lying wonders." Also, as paul continues here, he reveals that the delusion that allows these people to accept the man of sin/anti-Christ comes directly from God: 2Th 2:11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 2Th 2:12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Not only the ability to be deceived, but the resultant acquiescence to the deception itself, which is facilitated by a strong delusion sent from God, is a direct result of their lack of acceptance of Christ. The point is that there is not a necessity of a mass disappearance for folks to be tricked. Whether the rapture occurs prior to the tribulation or not, a mass disappearance is not necessary or mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keras Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,686 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/07/1941 Share Posted January 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: This is foolish. A Scripture "Analyzer..." Yeah, right. It is the Interlinear Scripture Anyalizer, a free site that gives the verse in Hebrew - OT and Greek - NT. It gives the literal translation, or you can look up the word in Strongs. Your disparagement of such a useful tool, demonstrates your ignorance. 2 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: The GREEK verb VOICE is what determines WHO CAN go to Heaven -ON THEIR OWN. It is in the ACTIVE VOICE. That means no ONE CAN TAKE THEMSELVES to Heaven. except the one who has come from Heaven: Jesus! A fine example of twisting scripture to make it mean what you want it to. 2 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: Analyze that... and you might educate yourself and correct your ignorant take on it which you refuse to change because you hope to prove the Rapture - which is in the Bible - is not possible. You are fighting against Scripture, and so I fight your un-Biblical attack which is a damper on the blessed hope some hold on to dearly. How dare you trample that which Paul says we are to encourage each other. Some are not strong, and you act as a wolf to them. How dare you. A general rapture to heaven of all Christians in the Bible; where? I encourage people with the truth, which if only you and all the believers of false theories could only see; tells of an amazing future. When what you believe doesn't happen, those who are not strong in their faith will fall away. 2 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: I suggest you adopt a sheep-attitude and humble yourself to learn the Word and not attack it. Take your own advice. I haven't noticed you being humble and your knowledge of the Word is abysmal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Steve_S said: Isn't this pretty much the premise of the left behind series? Also, regardless of when you think the rapture is (and i don't think it is before the tribulation) the bible says that the anti-Christ will perform signs and lying wonders. Presumably this involves supernatural events or at least events that are perceived as supernatural. 2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 2Th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. You can also see from above that the act of rejecting Christ is precisely what opens one up to the influence of the "power, signs, and lying wonders." Also, as paul continues here, he reveals that the delusion that allows these people to accept the man of sin/anti-Christ comes directly from God: 2Th 2:11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 2Th 2:12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Not only the ability to be deceived, but the resultant acquiescence to the deception itself, which is facilitated by a strong delusion sent from God, is a direct result of their lack of acceptance of Christ. The point is that there is not a necessity of a mass disappearance for folks to be tricked. Whether the rapture occurs prior to the tribulation or not, a mass disappearance is not necessary or mentioned. When the rapture of the Church occurs is not something that a Christian needs to be divided. Scripture tells me it is before the seven year Tribulation for someone else they may think the timing is different. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 On 1/22/2017 at 9:24 PM, Ezra said: Actually you are seriously mistaken, as even John 14:1-3 confirms. To disbelieve this is to disbelieve God. JESUS IS GOD 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. GOD'S HOUSE IS HEAVEN, THE PLACE OF HIS THRONE 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: CHRIST AFFIRMS THIS EMPHATICALLY if it were not so, I would have told you. THE CHRISTIAN'S PLACE IN IN HEAVEN I go to prepare a place for you. CHRIST IS NOW IN HEAVEN PREPARING THIS PLACE 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, CHRIST WILL COME AGAIN AT THE RAPTURE I will come again, TO RECEIVE ALL BELIEVERS TO HIMSELF and receive you unto myself; BECAUSE HE IS IN HEAVEN, WE WILL ALSO BE THERE that where I am, there ye may be also. Soooooo when He returns I take it you all mansions are coming with Him? It would be wise to understand what that word mansions mean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 John 14:2 "In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." "Mansions" is "mone", # 3438 in the Strong's Greek dictionary, and pronounced, "mon-ay' ". It means a place to rest and abide where there is no trouble. Friend, this resting place is in Christ and the Father, that is the resting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted January 25, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 25, 2017 7 hours ago, Keras said: It is the Interlinear Scripture Anyalizer, a free site that gives the verse in Hebrew - OT and Greek - NT. It gives the literal translation, or you can look up the word in Strongs. Your disparagement of such a useful tool, demonstrates your ignorance. Talk about demonstrating ignorance... Grammatical Voice of Verbs Active Voice Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is executing the action, then the verb is referred to as being in the active voice. For example: "Jesus was baptizing the people" (paraphrase of John 3:22; 4:1,2). "Jesus" is the subject of the sentence and is the one that is performing the action of the verb; therefore the verb is said to be in the "Active Voice". Passive Voice Grammatical voice indicates whether the subject is the performer of the action of the verb (active voice), or the subject is the recipient of the action (passive voice). If the subject of the sentence is being acted upon, then the verb is referred to as being in the passive voice. For example: "Jesus ... was baptized by John in the Jordan" (Mark 1:9). "Jesus" is the subject of the sentence, but in this case He is being acted upon (i.e. He is the recipient of the action), therefore the verb is said to be in the "Passive Voice". Middle Voice The Greek middle voice shows the subject acting in his own interest or on his own behalf, or participating in the results of the verbal action. In overly simplistic terms, sometimes the middle form of the verb could be translated as "the performer of the action actually acting upon himself" (reflexive action). For example: "I am washing myself." "I" is the subject of the sentence (performing the action of the verb) and yet "I" am also receiving the action of the verb. This is said to be in the "Middle Voice". Many instances in the Greek are not this obvious and cannot be translated this literally. In John 3:13, the verb is in the active voice.No one has ascended into heaven. That is true - even though Enoch and Elijah are in Heaven. Even to this day, no one has ascended into Heaven. No one can perform that action - even with flying or space travel. However, Jesus can. That is what Jesus said.No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man The Lord is the only one who can (and has) ascended to Heaven. And He is the One Who gathers us who remain are still alive on the Day of the Lord. Here is the refutation of rabbi keras' mad endeavor to destroy the Biblical description of the Rapture for God's Elect on the Day of the Lord:While John 3:13 is true - it in no way precludes Jesus -who CAN ascend to Heaven- from taking us to Heaven when He gathers us up. And rabbi keras will continue to be willfully ignorant of the Greek Voice limiting his interpretation because he is on a mission to destroy the hope with which Paul said we should comfort one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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