OneLight Posted February 4, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 4, 2017 5 hours ago, n2thelight said: True tongues will not be spoken again until the elect are delivered up to satan Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]." Mark 13:11 is referring to answering questions asked to them. Just as the Holy Spirit guides us in what we say and do today, He did for them mentioned in that one verse. This has nothing to do with the gift of tongues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2017 13 hours ago, OneLight said: Mark 13:11 is referring to answering questions asked to them. Just as the Holy Spirit guides us in what we say and do today, He did for them mentioned in that one verse. This has nothing to do with the gift of tongues. Has everything to do with it.. The questions asked as you say will be answered in tongues as it was in Acts,meaning all will understand the answer as given, in their own language,which can only be done by the Holy Spirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Personally I believe the gift of tongue's was an early church gift to spread the gospel, and like other sign gifts to verify the "new teaching of the way" was in fact from God. Now that we have the complete Bible to verify the truth of Christianity the gift of tongues is no longer needed or in effect. The simple word of God in scripture is adequate to spread the message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,203 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,477 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 5, 2017 This is a battle of subjective verses objective reason... Objective facts are that of objective reason Bible / hermeneutic and subjective facts are human experienced events an thru emotions and desires internalized and believed... Here is what I mean: because tongues are experienced as s?Spiritual by one in process of experiencing- yet no interpreter ... they have only subjective recourse to fall back on! They cannot verify with Scripture that which is being done they only say I feel it makes me closer to God or various other subjective proclamations... Now it doesn't take a lot of mental effort on the part of anyone to view this in this way- it requires the departure from the objective hermeneutic of God's Word to a subjective reliance of experience resulting in this statement: The Word of God becomes secondary to experience! Thus validating the created being's experience above The Word! It is in this I find objection with tongues and remain solely foundationed upon Scripture alone in validation of all s/Spiritual evaluations.... This question then becomes valid- Why would God put forth the objectivity of written Word and then bypass that through experience enhancement of a subjective nature... especially when God has told us that His Word shall not pass away and every jot and tittle will be fulfilled? I believe by refusing the present day tongues I have recourse through His Word to give and account of myself of why I do not allow them in myself but the reverse for those practicing cannot be said the same but must agree it is outside of Word through subjective demands only... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydog1976 Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 626 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 360 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2017 On 2/3/2017 at 8:15 PM, OneLight said: Faith in scripture is something personal. You don't believe tongues are for today. I believe they are. Not being an issue of salvation, feel free not to believe that the Holy Spirit still gives gifts to the Body as He sees fit. It is your loss. While I agree with most of your statement the last part of your statement concerns me. How is it a loss if a person doesn't believe tongues exist in today's context? I am not saying they do are don't. I tend to lean to the side that tongues don't exist but I don't consider it a loss to me either because I believe this way. God has given me different gifts and because it is a Spiritual gift then not everyone is going to have the gift of tongues anyway. So there is not loss or gain from it. God uses people in different ways. One Light I think that your very last sentence could have been written a bit differently because it comes off as sarcastic. I have always enjoyed reading your responses and this last statement just didn't seem in line with how you respond normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Jaydog1976 said: While I agree with most of your statement the last part of your statement concerns me. How is it a loss if a person doesn't believe tongues exist in today's context? I am not saying they do are don't. I tend to lean to the side that tongues don't exist but I don't consider it a loss to me either because I believe this way. God has given me different gifts and because it is a Spiritual gift then not everyone is going to have the gift of tongues anyway. So there is not loss or gain from it. God uses people in different ways. One Light I think that your very last sentence could have been written a bit differently because it comes off as sarcastic. I have always enjoyed reading your responses and this last statement just didn't seem in line with how you respond normally. The Holy Spirit gives gifts as He wills. 1 Corinthians 12:11: But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. If we refuse to accept the gifts He gives, we are at a loss in being effective in Him, relying on our own understanding and strength. Each gift is given by God for a purpose to fulfill His purpose, not ours. It takes faith to believe God still works in His body today more than ever. Without that faith, we are lacking all He has for us. What I have noticed is that the believers today want all the good He has to give ... health, wealth, peace, love, etc., but reject the inner working of the Holy Spirit when it causes them to move out of their comfort zone. This is why the body is so lacking and the lost grow in greater numbers. Imagine what the body would be like if we allowed Him to work in each of us as He wills, not according to what we find comfortable. My statement is not sarcastic, but reality. Think of it this way. Have you ever been used to give a word of wisdom to someone who needed guidance, or a word of knowledge in a situation you knew nothing about but the word turned out to be true? Have you ever been in a situation where you or someone else were deeply in need and saw no way out, but found an increased blessing of faith to see it through? I have in all three cases. I knw His gifts still operate today and without them, either I or someone else would of been at a loss if I did not follow through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,431 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,518 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2017 While we believe God is a giver of all good things and give to his children according to his will, we have and MUST remember that we have a counterfeiter that is called many names and one of them is master deceiver and also comes in as an angel of light. Yes, the scripture does speak of gifts of tongues, but we are warned to test the spirits too. When Moses dropped his staff and it turned into a serpent, Pharaoh magicians duplicated the feat that was identical. It shows that satan is indeed a master worker of deception. Maybe there is a real aspect of tongues as described in the Bible today, but i have rearly and i mean rearly seen it practiced the way outlined, instead it is like possession of another kind of spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydog1976 Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 626 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 360 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2017 1 minute ago, OneLight said: The Holy Spirit gives gifts as He wills. 1 Corinthians 12:11: But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. If we refuse to accept the gifts He gives, we are at a loss in being effective in Him, relying on our own understanding and strength. Each gift is given by God for a purpose to fulfill His purpose, not ours. It takes faith to believe God still works in His body today more than ever. Without that faith, we are lacking all He has for us What I have noticed is that the believers today want all the good He has to give ... health, wealth, peace, love, etc., but reject the inner working of the Holy Spirit when it causes them to move out of their comfort zone. This is why the body is so lacking and the lost grow in greater numbers. Imagine what the body would be like if we allowed Him to work in each of us as He wills, not according to what we find comfortable. My statement is not sarcastic, but reality. Think of it this way. Have you ever been used to give a word of wisdom to someone who needed guidance, or a word of knowledge in a situation you knew nothing about but the word turned out to be true? Have you ever been in a situation where you or someone else were deeply in need and saw no way out, but found an increased blessing of faith to see it through? I have in all three cases. I knw His gifts still operate today and without them, either I or someone else would of been at a loss if I did not follow through. I totally agree that if God has given us gifts and we don't use them then we are at a loss. However, just because I don't have the same gifts that you do or anyone else does it doesn't meant that I am lacking faith in what He can do in and through my life. I have never spoken in tongues and the Holy spirit has never led me to do so. It has nothing to do with comfort levels or anything like that. The Holy Spirit has just worked differently in my life. With that being said tongues have to be done correctly and must follow the scriptural guidelines listed in I Corinthians 14 and other passages. My point boils down to this, if you feel that the Holy Spirit has gifted you with tongues that fantastic. You must do what you feel He is leading you to do. However if the Holy Spirit hasn't done so with another person than that is fine as well. No one is better than the other. God uses us differently and in different ways. There is no loss or gain. It is how you use what God has given you for His service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydog1976 Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 626 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 360 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2017 12 minutes ago, warrior12 said: While we believe God is a giver of all good things and give to his children according to his will, we have and MUST remember that we have a counterfeiter that is called many names and one of them is master deceiver and also comes in as an angel of light. Yes, the scripture does speak of gifts of tongues, but we are warned to test the spirits too. When Moses dropped his staff and it turned into a serpent, Pharaoh magicians duplicated the feat that was identical. It shows that satan is indeed a master worker of deception. Maybe there is a real aspect of tongues as described in the Bible today, but i have rearly and i mean rearly seen it practiced the way outlined, instead it is like possession of another kind of spirit. Great point. I can quite honestly say I don't know if tongues exist or not. However I err on the side that they do not exist to safeguard against the counterfeits. There so many of them that you don't know what is true an what if false. It is actually scary. Plus the tongues I have witnessed in my own personal visits to churches have been chaotic and not done according to the scriptures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jaydog1976 said: I totally agree that if God has given us gifts and we don't use them then we are at a loss. However, just because I don't have the same gifts that you do or anyone else does it doesn't meant that I am lacking faith in what He can do in and through my life. I have never spoken in tongues and the Holy spirit has never led me to do so. It has nothing to do with comfort levels or anything like that. The Holy Spirit has just worked differently in my life. With that being said tongues have to be done correctly and must follow the scriptural guidelines listed in I Corinthians 14 and other passages. My point boils down to this, if you feel that the Holy Spirit has gifted you with tongues that fantastic. You must do what you feel He is leading you to do. However if the Holy Spirit hasn't done so with another person than that is fine as well. No one is better than the other. God uses us differently and in different ways. There is no loss or gain. It is how you use what God has given you for His service. Your first paragraph is assuming that we are all alike and have the same gifts. I never said that. In fact, referring back to 1 Corinthians 12 we see that the Holy Spirit is "distributing to each one individually as He wills." Scripture goes on to show that we all are different, but of the same body. We don't have all the same calling or the same gifts. Strange as it is, the one gift of tongues is argued the most. Yes, I have seen many times the abuse of this gift. It is not my intention to tell you that you have to have the gift of tongues and speak to the body, or have the interruptions of tongues. That is up to the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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