Soul sleep

[missmuffet]

In regards to my soul sleep comment which you have denied:

Question: "What does the Bible say about soul sleep?"

Answer: “Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Present-day defenders of soul sleep include the Seventh Day Adventist church, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, and others.

https://www.gotquestions.org/soul-sleep.html

 

[missmuffet]

11 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Thank you, 

This is not clear, and it is confusing as it is stated ,

you should have made the distinction between an unbeliever who understood the message of the Gospel and decided not to believe it and he died in that state of unbelief. 

He is someone who is found with the denial that Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins, at the time of his last breath. 

And that what Jesus was teaching, he said to those he was speaking to, if you are found with the denial at the time of your death, 

The words that you have heard that Jesus is the Christ, the Savior of the world and you did not believe it, and hope for another Savior to come, these words will judge you, because you did not believe that Jesus was from God. if you die with the denial. 

Hope that I distinguish those who heard and choose not to believe, (that time the Pharisees, and others), from those who never heard Jesus speak by reason of living in Greece or Italy, or in Egypt. 

The fair statement is that those who never heard the Gospel, and died without the denial, but also without the faith of Jesus Christ , can not be classified together with the group of those who heard but desided to denied faith in Jesus as the Savior and died in their unbelief. 

Those who were not given the Gospel and died without the faith of Jesus Christ, but also without the denial of Jesus as the Savior, the Christ,

Those belong to a group of their own. 

 

I can not say why and what is the reason that you made reference to this even. 

I am quite sure that you believe that Jesus was raised from the dead after three days, and then he went to Heaven ,

and he did not go to Heaven right away, as soon as he was raised from the dead,

as we see when he met the women in the garden he said to them, something that has to do to where he had to go and he had not gone yet.

He was telling the women that how bless they were to have behold him (see him, meet him and talk with him), before his Father got to see him, his Father who was in Heaven. 

And he did not mean his earthly guardian, Joseph,

but his Heavenly Father his God and our God. 

 

Jesus Christ died before the thief, so he went to the Bossom of Abraham

(who was also in the place of the dead), 

before the thief, and that's where the thief met him as soon as he died. 

The thief he might have  believed that Jesus was going to the Bossom of Abraham, and or something about Jesus that was someone very special and after his death he will have his own kingdom and that perhaps in the Bossom of Abraham, or some special place, in the place of the dead, or perhaps not,

(we do not know if the thief spoke prophetic words, or that he knew Spiritual matters of this kind)

, and he express his wish to be with him. 

He also it seems that he believe that Jesus had some authority to choose who can be in his kingdom, 

In other words he was telling Jesus that he was  not with them, the people and the priest who condemn him to death, that he believed that he is from God, and he is innocent,

The thief must have seen Jesus heal the sick and heard him talk to people, and as the servants of the Pharisees one time said "we never heard anyone talk like him",

and he must have seen that Jesus did not keep distance from the sinners, but he did good to them and he often fellowship with them, 

So the thief was bold enough to ask Jesus to take him to be with him.

And Jesus told him where I am going there you will also be. 

Later when Jesus Christ was raised from the dead , he took everyone who believed in him out from there, the place of the dead, Jesus Christ died for all, and he preached the Gospel to all who had died before him, as Jesus said the way Lazarus heard my voice and came out of the place of the dead, he was raised from the dead, 

The same way, the dead heard JESUS voice (declaring the Gospel to them first, before the living who heard the Gospel after the resurrection).

JESUS said the dead will hear my voice and come alive (believe in him), receiving the forgiveness of sins and the eternal life, and a Heavenly inheritance first.

(Before the living)

As JESUS said " where I am those who believe in me that's where they will be together with me".

The theif  must have been one of those who believe, and as Jesus said where I am that's where you will be with me.

No need to say that he is with JESUS, since the time God gave JESUS the Heavens as his inheritance, and not for him only, but also for his children.  

 

Even when we sleep , as when we go to sleep every day, do you think our Spiritual self goes to sleep. 

If Abraham went to sleep how can he received his children in his Bossom. 

Or why Jesus will tell Jonh the Baptist go to the place of the dead before me and declare my coming there in those who are waiting for me in the Bossom of Abraham and Abraham himself. 

Jesus said that Abraham had seen this day , the day of God's Christ

(Jesus day)

who will come to set him free from the captivity and take him to Heaven together with his children , and he rejoice . 

Do you believe that the soul of a believer goes immediately to heaven when they die? Yes or No

[Your closest friendnt]

47 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Do you believe that the soul of a believer goes immediately to heaven when they die? Yes or No

This is not about ourselves, and should not be about others. 

This is about understanding what it is all about, and what it is not about. 

This is about what Jesus has accomplish with his mission, and his obedience to die on the Cross. 

Your question has something to do with the change that came about because of Jesus obedience to die on the Cross. 

When we say with JESUS came a change, we must understand how things were before JESUS death and resurrection and how they are post his resurrection . 

Only then, we can understand about the change that came about with Jesus and the answer to your question can be deduce from the facts at hand. 

JESUS is the door to Heaven. 

There was no Heavenly inheritance for mankind before JESUS Christ. 

Jesus Christ must be the first one, and then in his name everyone else. 

Everyone who believes in JESUS CHRIST has a Heavenly inheritance , that includes a place in Heaven, and that's where  a Believer goes  imediadly after he dies. 

 

[missmuffet]

3 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This is not about ourselves, and should not be about others. 

This is about understanding what it is all about, and what it is not about. 

This is about what Jesus has accomplish with his mission, and his obedience to die on the Cross. 

Your question has something to do with the change that came about because of Jesus obedience to die on the Cross. 

When we say with JESUS came a change, we must understand how things were before JESUS death and resurrection and how they are post his resurrection . 

Only then, we can understand about the change that came about with Jesus and the answer to your question can be deduce from the facts at hand. 

JESUS is the door to Heaven. 

There was no Heavenly inheritance for mankind before JESUS Christ. 

Jesus Christ must be the first one, and then in his name everyone else. 

Everyone who believes in JESUS CHRIST has a Heavenly inheritance , that includes a place in Heaven, and that's where  a Believer goes  imediadly after he dies. 

 

You are dancing around my question. So you do not believe that the soul of a believer goes to heaven immediately after they die?

[Your closest friendnt]

5 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

You are dancing around my question. So you do not believe that the soul of a believer goes to heaven immediately after they die?

I have responded to your request from the very beginning, and hoped that you will be able to see it, and for a while I thought that you did not see it, and I continue to want to assist you in getting the correct understanding to your question, but you continue to make the wrong assertions about the matter in question.

You remind me about Thomas, who insisted to  check out JESUS for him self before he believes.

But your case is somewhat diferent and not exactly the same. 

 I have given my answer  to your request from the things I have posted, and it is quite crystal clear, you insist that you need to have a straight forward confession , if not you will continue to talk about what I believe like you know what I believe when in fact you do not know. 

Have I confess that I believe in soul sleeping, not I have not. 

Have I said anything that may lead you to believe that advocate the soul sleep possition, no I have not. 

To the contrary I have said many things in a way to help those who are in the soul sleep mode, to come to the knowledge of the truth, and reconsider their convictions. 

I gave quite a few informations so that they may reconsider their beliefs in this matter. 

The change takes place in the thoughts and the heart of the person. 

Confession can be sensired , but can also be deceiving. 

Confession does not always reflects the heart. 

You may insist , and may use different kinds of technics to elicit confessions from people, 

And always justifieing and ecxusing the method , by looking at the end result. and that does not come from faith, accepting things by faith with the witness of the Holy Spirit. 

JESUS knows everything , even the thoughts of a person, he does not need anyone's confession , he knows everyone by their thoughts . JESUS can not be deceived by anyone's confession . 

You must get to know the people by what they hide behind their words, and their definitions, and  their confessions. 

You know that Jesus when he die he went to the place of the dead, and that's where he was raised from the dead. 

He did not go to Heaven to be with the Heavenly Father when he die on the Cross, 

JESUS went to Sheol or Hades, or the place of the dead, to be with the Devil and all the other powers, and nothing hurt him, 

And he left that place victorious having taken the keys of Hades and Death away from Hades and Death. 

Jesus has the keys of Death and Hades, 

JESUS went to the place of the dead, and the Heavenly Father is not in the place of the dead, 

Is it too difficult for you to accept that they were seperated for three days, 

That Jesus and the Heavenly Father were separated for three days. 

 

 

[missmuffet]

2 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I have responded to your request from the very beginning, and hoped that you will be able to see it, and for a while I thought that you did not see it, and I continue to want to assist you in getting the correct understanding to your question, but you continue to make the wrong assertions about the matter in question.

You remind me about Thomas, who insisted to  check out JESUS for him self before he believes.

But your case is somewhat diferent and not exactly the same. 

 I have given my answer  to your request from the things I have posted, and it is quite crystal clear, you insist that you need to have a straight forward confession , if not you will continue to talk about what I believe like you know what I believe when in fact you do not know. 

Have I confess that I believe in soul sleeping, not I have not. 

Have I said anything that may lead you to believe that advocate the soul sleep possition, no I have not. 

To the contrary I have said many things in a way to help those who are in the soul sleep mode, to come to the knowledge of the truth, and reconsider their convictions. 

I gave quite a few informations so that they may reconsider their beliefs in this matter. 

The change takes place in the thoughts and the heart of the person. 

Confession can be sensired , but can also be deceiving. 

Confession does not always reflects the heart. 

You may insist , and may use different kinds of technics to elicit confessions from people, 

And always justifieing and ecxusing the method , by looking at the end result. and that does not come from faith, accepting things by faith with the witness of the Holy Spirit. 

JESUS knows everything , even the thoughts of a person, he does not need anyone's confession , he knows everyone by their thoughts . JESUS can not be deceived by anyone's confession . 

You must get to know the people by what they hide behind their words, and their definitions, and  their confessions. 

You know that Jesus when he die he went to the place of the dead, and that's where he was raised from the dead. 

He did not go to Heaven to be with the Heavenly Father when he die on the Cross, 

JESUS went to Sheol or Hades, or the place of the dead, to be with the Devil and all the other powers, and nothing hurt him, 

And he left that place victorious having taken the keys of Hades and Death away from Hades and Death. 

Jesus has the keys of Death and Hades, 

JESUS went to the place of the dead, and the Heavenly Father is not in the place of the dead, 

Is it too difficult for you to accept that they were seperated for three days, 

That Jesus and the Heavenly Father were separated for three days. 

 

 

But you have not given me a yes or no answer so I am done with this debate.

[SOLOMONS PORCH]

On 2/6/2017 at 7:46 PM, zorgblar said:

For all of the people on here who think our soul goes out of existence until god brings us back to life what about this?

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Also in ps 90:10-12 it says at death we fly away.
Notice it says we fly away.Not just "our soul flys away" like in genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

In ps 90:10-12 it says we fly away at death.

Notice at death we fly away.Not just"our soul flys away. Like in genesis 35:18 it says, "her soul was departing" not "she was departing.

This makes ecc 12:7 make since when it says our spirit returns to god.

By the way i got most of this from here: http://wordonly.net/CI07.html

Intresting

[JTC]

This is an interesting topic and it's 1 that we can never be 100% certain of. You can only choose which pov you believe is true. I just want to point out that this isn't what's called an essential doctrine. Exactly what happens to the soul after death doesn't effect salvation. The people who believe is soul sleep make a very convincing argument. However, I'd say most Christians and Catholics believe the soul goes some where right after death. This really shouldn't matter in terms of how we live this life. Jesus said we have to obey Him and the Father so to me that's what's important. You can drive yourself nuts trying to figure out what happens after death. Don't do that. You can also give yourself other kinds of doubts like this, so be careful.  

[Ezra]

On 2/6/2017 at 8:09 PM, missmuffet said:

Paradise has nothing to do with Hades or hell. It is the place the believers went to before Jesus was crucified on the cross. Jesus then took these souls to heaven with Him when he visited paradise after He was crucified.

No one went to Paradise (which is in Heaven) before the resurrection of Christ.  Sheol/Hades was in "the heart of the earth" or "the lower parts of the earth" and it had two compartments, with a wide chasm between them.  One was for the righteous dead (the OT saints) and the other was for the unrighteous dead (the lost). Now, all the righteous dead go directly to Heaven.

[Remnantrob]

On 2/7/2017 at 3:08 AM, missmuffet said:

In regards to my soul sleep comment which you have denied:

Question: "What does the Bible say about soul sleep?"

Answer: “Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Present-day defenders of soul sleep include the Seventh Day Adventist church, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, and others.

https://www.gotquestions.org/soul-sleep.html

 

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