JohnD Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 21 hours ago, Spock said: Difficult question to answer, but a good one. JWs probably are more excited to see newbies whereby some established churches maybe don't trust the newbies walking through the doors. I really don't have a LOGICAL answer but I will check back to see some much better responses than mine. Those who believe in untruth have to work harder to convince others AND themselves. Faith founded on facts is a far more comfortable place to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 That being said, HHHanegraaff (not a favorite individual of mine, but one who said a profundity), "Are you willing to do for the truth what the cults are willing to do for a lie?" If HHH came up with it, give the devil his due. If he plagiarized it... it would not surprise me. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ You will also find among orthodox churches a pretense of welcome. You can notice it in small towns more than bigger ones because you encounter these people around town more often. And the hand out to shake and glib welcome... especially the Southern Baptists in the greeting session at the beginning of the Sunday service... we used to arrive late to deliberately miss them. Don't get me wrong, there are sincere folks at every juncture... but by and large it's just a ritual: 1. this is what we think we have to do 2. this is how we've always done it 3. this is how you keep the local congregation and the denomination in the black $$$ _______________________________________________________________________________________________ The more birthdays I have as a believer of the Word, and being a keen observer of humanity / human nature... I see the Church Organization as a hindrance to the Church Organism. Phoniness in the name of anything is still phony. And eventually it will leave a bad enough taste that people will be reviled or repulsed... honesty is the best policy. And people who are looking for friends need a course in what friendship truly is and that they are better off with no friends than false friends or shallow acquaintances they labels as friends. "You are rich by the number of friends you have" is a myth perpetuated by people who fear / dread being alone and are not confident in who they are. My definition of a friend would be more of a fiduciary (both ways). I have had 5 my whole life (56 years old). Two betrayed me. Two died. And the remaining one I married 37 years ago. People who no matter what you are there for whenever if ever needed and vice versa. People who you would die for and who would die for you. That's a true friend. John 15:13 (AV) 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. _________________________________________________________________________________________________ Proverbs 18:24 (NASB95) 24 A man of too many friends comes to ruin, But there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother. __________________________________________________________________________________________________ Best friend I ever had or anyone could ever have is God the Holy Spirit living in me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 My father had flaws as do we all. But he was a man. Wherever he went you knew here stands a man. He believed in work and responsibility. He did not ask for favors or expect assistance of any kind from anyone. He expected other to be grown up about life and for children to be well on their way to that expectation. He was one of my best friends (he died in 1972) but not before he showed me the example of being a man. A true friend is one who can stand on their own two feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,428 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Spock said: I wonder how you would feel if your next pastor was a gay woman minister? I think many forget the service procedure of the Ark of the Covenant in the OT. It was a very strict and precise procedure that if not carried out the way the Lord instructed, it certainly brought disaster. The fear of the Lord has left many or many has left the fear of the Lord. It is the beginning of all wisdom. Psalm 111 King James Version (KJV) 10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever Edited April 16, 2017 by warrior12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 Thanks for sharing again Gary. my wife and I are usually asked by our daughter (28) to come visit with her church, and she has attended many over the years. So, we really get a chance to experience today's new modern churches. After attending her church for several weeks, We give our daughter our feedback, and we have conversation about how we see the pros and cons. The ironic thing is this- none of them have a Bible study hour before service. You just come for the SHOW! By that I mean, 20 minutes of ear splitting music (we wear ear plugs), some You Tube presentation, some master of ceremony who comes out and entertains the masses, mostly with comedy, and of course plenty of Starbucks coffee. After the SHOW, you head home. So, when do you fellowship with other believers? You don't. Some of them have weekly studies in homes, some don't offer that. Anyhow, you can see why it might be a bit more difficult for people to get to know each other. When I grew up after I left the Catholic Church and attended a Protestant Church, it was always Bible study hour that I looked forward to the most. We would read a passage or chapter and then discuss, or maybe it was topical. Anyhow, if you make everything on one day, like Sunday, it seems you can maximize people learning and meeting. I guess..... Never a dull moment with my daughter. I also believe she wants us to go with her so we can buy her (and family) lunch! My daughter is always willing to have an excuse not to cook, especially if she doesn't have to pay for it either. Lol. Kids......don't you love them? Yes we do! Anyhow, your church sounds awesome, even with its flaws. Spock out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 hour ago, warrior12 said: I think many forget the service procedure of the Ark of the Covenant in the OT. It was a very strict and precise procedure that if not carried out the way the Lord instructed, it certainly brought disaster. The fear of the Lord has left many or many has left the fear of the Lord. It is the beginning of all wisdom. Psalm 111 King James Version (KJV) 10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever Didn't a few guys get zapped when they even touched the Arc as it was falling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,428 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Spock said: Didn't a few guys get zapped when they even touched the Arc as it was falling? Yes, this was a very sad situation that occurred and David was upset by it and so was I when i read of it. But the instructions from the Lord was firm and we find the penalty was firm. Uzzah was the guy name who tried to keep the Arc upright when the oxen shook it. 2 Samuel 6 King James Version (KJV) 8 And David was displeased, because the Lord had made a breach upon Uzzah: and he called the name of the place Perezuzzah to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 16 minutes ago, warrior12 said: Yes, this was a very sad situation that occurred and David was upset by it and so was I when i read of it. But the instructions from the Lord was firm and we find the penalty was firm. Uzzah was the guy name who tried to keep the Arc upright when the oxen shook it. 2 Samuel 6 King James Version (KJV) 8 And David was displeased, because the Lord had made a breach upon Uzzah: and he called the name of the place Perezuzzah to this day. Me too!!! I know God is good and never makes a bad call, but that one had me scratching my head. I was even more upset when David took a census and as a result I believe 70,000 people died for that decision. I would have rather God zapped David instead of the 70,000, but my wife reminded me of how the entire human population got zapped when Adam sinned. Gulp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Of The Bible Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 26 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/16/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 I am a member of a wonderfully warm church in my home town. Walking across the threshold feels like stepping into a deeply warm hug. I am so blessed to have found such a community. I had attended other churches as a child and they were sterile of that feeling. It felt like the people were there because they were expected to be. The pastor was very judgmental and harsh and did not practice what was preached in the bible. And after church the cattiness among the gossips both women and men was disgusting. Those who were not part of that would walk to our cars hearing the voices at our backs speaking against us for any number of transgressions in their judgment. The worst and final straw was when the pastor announced expansion into a Christian school project on the property. Bullies were bad enough in school, but in church was beyond the pale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted April 16, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,428 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Spock said: Me too!!! I know God is good and never makes a bad call, but that one had me scratching my head. I was even more upset when David took a census and as a result I believe 70,000 people died for that decision. I would have rather God zapped David instead of the 70,000, but my wife reminded me of how the entire human population got zapped when Adam sinned. Gulp! Well, was it not that satan caused David to take the census. I have asked this question on this forum and got some obscure answers. What's your take, or ask the wife if she could fill me in here. The chapter starts abruptly with this statement. 1 Chronicles 21 King James Version (KJV) 21 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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