Inherit the Kingdom of God???

[Happinessity]

25 minutes ago, Spock said:

Thanks. Have a blessed evening. 

Spock

You're welcome. And you as well. 

[gdemoss]

The kingdom of heaven is within you.  It is in the last analysis that we finally hear God from within.  A rich man trusts in his riches and has no need to turn to God.  The idols in his heart of gold and silver keep him from knowing God.  The drunkard never faces his sin but worships alcohol which at first helps him feel clean and free.  And on amd on we go down the list.  

I was many things. I was washed.  I work very hard to watch for sin as it manifests in my life and I confess it when I find it.  I come clean about it.  The fear of the Lord is clean.

I cast my cares upon him for he cares about me.  

Eternal life means unchanging life.  We have eternal life in earthen vessels that we might experience life though our outward man perishes.  There is no shadow of turning in him for he is "e turn al" without turning.

Once you know the truth it sets you free from the lie.  What is salvation if it isn't the gift of an unchanging life that has no end?  Can I still be gay after knowing the lie I have lived?  Can I still be a drunkard after understanding the lie it is to live by the power of alcohol rather than the spirit of God?  Can I go on being greedy after knowing the true power of love and understand why it is better to give than receive?  And how can I go on lying once I know the truth?  

Today, I have a difficult time because my conscience knows the truth.  I cannot manipulate everyone around me for personal gain and play God lording over my fellows without suffering deeply.  No, I am compelled to seek to serve instead.  

In the resurrection it is spoken of that their will be those who do not inherit the kingdom but rather suffer without.  I can't live like a dog anymore though it was once natural.  There simply is no going back to wallow in the mud like a pig who has been washed.  I don't have it in me to live that way anymore though I once did.

 

 

[Spock]

I guess this is as good a time as any for me to share my thinking. 

I can see Willa's and Fedei's position and they have the scripture to support it, but...........

it seems to me it  is very possible for a believer to seriously backslide (practicing sin) even after years of walking with the Lord.  For example, a sudden death of a loved one could send that person in a tailspin whereby they took their eyes off the prize and put them elsewhere.  Thus, trouble in paradise. 

I believe once the HS seals you, you are His for life, as long as you don't DENY HIM.  Deny him means reject his atonement, reject your belief that he is the Son of God. 

Therefore, what I'm saying is this- I believe even true believers can lose it and backslide for years. If they engage in certain sins listed by Paul in Galatians or Corinthians, they could lose their inheritance....their rewards.  While they barely make it into Heaven, they will attain no rewards. 

So, I believe it is very possible a person can believe in Christ, partake in sexual sin afterwards, yet still make it to heaven.....penniless though. 

Okay, let me have it.

spock

 

[Guest shiloh357]

31 minutes ago, Spock said:

I guess this is as good a time as any for me to share my thinking. 

I can see Willa's and Fedei's position and they have the scripture to support it, but...........

it seems to me it  is very possible for a believer to seriously backslide (practicing sin) even after years of walking with the Lord.  For example, a sudden death of a loved one could send that person in a tailspin whereby they took their eyes off the prize and put them elsewhere.  Thus, trouble in paradise.

And that didn't take God by surprise.  When the Lord saves us, He already knows how many times we will let him down.   He knows how many times we will fail and break His heart.    And he saved us anyway.   He saved us knowing all of our weakness and flaws.    So I am not sure that when Christians fail in times of discouragement and are reacting out of unimaginable pain that God's response is to toss them out of the Kingdom.   That doesn't fit His biblical profile.   Either His mercy endures forever, or it doesn't and it was all a big lie.

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I believe once the HS seals you, you are His for life, as long as you don't DENY HIM.  Deny him means reject his atonement, reject your belief that he is the Son of God. 

If you're truly born again, you won't deny Him.  Salvation is transformational experience.  We have a new heart, a new set of desires to serve the Lord.  Yes we will all stumble in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord, but we  will not forsake Him. 

Think of it like this.   You would never bring harm to a innocent infant.   You have the power to do it, but there is nothing in you that would even entertain such a thing.   The very suggestion of doing something like that is offensive.   You have the power to walk away, but as Christians, even in tough times, we don't have the will to do it, to reject Him.  If you can walk away, you were never saved to start with.   Christians always persevere.  One of our problems in our modern culture is that we don't operate from a biblical standard of what a Christian is. 

It's important to realize that at least in America, there is a form of Christianity that does not have Christ in it; at least, not the Christ of Scripture.  There is a cultural Christianity that redefines Jesus into what they find palatable.  Everyone loves the "gentle Jesus meek and mild"  standing in a pasture with His shepherd's crook in one hand and holding a sheep with his other arm.   A nice guy with some nice things to say.   They reject the King of kings and Lord of lords. They reject the Son of God who has a direct claim on their lives and will one day sit in judgment upon them.   There  are "Christians"  who subscribe to cultural Christianity and they live in the external Christian community and they belong to the Christian "religion"  but have never embraced the Jesus of Scripture, never placed their faith in Him.  They mentally assent to some of His teachings, but they  don't see their need to be one of those "born again"  fundamentalists.

So when a Christian falls away out of discouragement, instead of running to, and clinging to Jesus as their Savior and Deliverer, then it is a good indication that they not really authentic NT believers.   They have religion, sure enough.  But, they don't have Jesus.

Look at Paul.   Paul was in prison, and it appears at some points, he was nearly starving in prison.  He was beaten, and nearly stoned to death, shipwrecked, even snake bit and yet his passion for Jesus never wavered in all of that.   He didn't complain and become discouraged, but was always passionate about the well being of the churches he had started and was writing letters and stuff.   That's how a Christian responds to adversity. A Christian doesn't run from Jesus when troubles come.  He runs to Jesus.

 

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Therefore, what I'm saying is this- I believe even true believers can lose it and backslide for years. If they engage in certain sins listed by Paul in Galatians or Corinthians, they could lose their inheritance....their rewards.  While they barely make it into Heaven, they will attain no rewards. 

So, I believe it is very possible a person can believe in Christ, partake in sexual sin afterwards, yet still make it to heaven.....penniless though. 

Okay, let me have it.

spock

 

I am not sure if you saying they can lose salvation, or not, but I agree that our rewards will vary depending on our service.  

I John 3:9  tells us that those who are born of God do not practice sin; they don't live in it habitually.   I don't think a believer who is truly born again, makes a practice of sin.   I will say that I think they can become lax in their service.   Their lack of reward is like due to simply not living in active service.  They are not living in sin, per se, but they are not growing either. 

Your inheritance cannot be lost.  Your inheritance is the fullness of salvation.   Your rewards are for service.  If you lose your inheritance, you lose salvation and that is not possible for the authentic follower of Jesus.

[Your closest friendnt]

On 5/4/2017 at 10:59 AM, Spock said:

Greetings brethren,

My reading of God's word this morning made me pause at this passage in 1 Cor 6:

9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men^a 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

My two questions are simply this:

1. Do you see this passage as a salvation issue - won't make it into Heaven- or do you see this as a rewards issue - won't inherit any rewards?  

2. And my follow up question is this: Paul said in verse 11, "and that is what some of you were....."  What exactly is he saying here? For example, is he saying you were once a GREEDY PERSON, but since you accepted Christ into your life, you are no longer a GREEDY PERSON, even though you still may be GREEDY?  

I will not share my thinking now for fear of tainting your thoughts. Thanks. 

Blessings, 

spock

This Kingdom of Heaven, may I ask what it is, and how it is inherited, and who are the first people to inherit the Kingdom of God. 

Did Abraham was one of them or perhaps Aaron, or David. some people for examples. 

 

[Spock]

So Shiloh, 

Applying this passage:

9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with mena 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Just to be clear, Is it your contention that one cannot be truly saved (a true believer) and also be living a sexually immoral lifestyle?  Such as a single couple living together for years but not married or a practicing homosexual who attends a Christian Church, sings in the choir, and says they believe in Jesus?

Btw, Both of these scenarios are right in front of me as we speak. I am just trying to understand Gods word in applying it. I know God has the final say on matters of salvation. I just enjoy reading your conclusions from the scriptures. 

Thanks,

spock

[Happinessity]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

So Shiloh, 

Applying this passage:

9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with mena 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Just to be clear, Is it your contention that one cannot be truly saved (a true believer) and also be living a sexually immoral lifestyle?  Such as a single couple living together for years but not married or a practicing homosexual who attends a Christian Church, sings in the choir, and says they believe in Jesus?

Btw, Both of these scenarios are right in front of me as we speak. I am just trying to understand Gods word in applying it. I know God has the final say on matters of salvation. I just enjoy reading your conclusions from the scriptures. 

Thanks,

spock

I think you'll find that the scriptures you have there pertain to those who are not redeemed in Christ. 

Christians are sealed with the holy spirit of God unto the last day. We can backslide sure. But Jesus does not throw us away for that. Just as we are no longer that condemned sinner after our redemption, and have an advocate to the father when we do run afoul of right living so that those trespasses are not counted as sins against us as they once were, so too do we have the holy spirit within us to lead us back to the way if we go astray. We repent and are again one with God. We were always his. 

That's the meaning in the prodigal son parable. The father was overjoyed to see his youngest son return home even though he was filthy and penniless for having wasted his inheritance through sinful behavior in worldly ways. 

While what is opposed to thinking that possible as a metaphor for the Christian today who can backslide and return to the father who will receive him, are what is spoken of as the older brother of the young prodigal son. Who did not see the younger return to the fathers home but in hearing he did and was received with joy and celebration, was enraged instead of at peace. Enraged that having walked away the younger son was received back when he chose to return. 

 

 

[Spock]

3 minutes ago, Happinessity said:

I think you'll find that the scriptures you have there pertain to those who are not redeemed in Christ. 

Christians are sealed with the holy spirit of God unto the last day. We can backslide sure. But Jesus does not throw us away for that. Just as we are no longer that condemned sinner after our redemption, and have an advocate to the father when we do run afoul of right living so that those trespasses are not counted as sins against us as they once were, so too do we have the holy spirit within us to lead us back to the way if we go astray. We repent and are again one with God. We were always his. 

That's the meaning in the prodigal son parable. The father was overjoyed to see his youngest son return home even though he was filthy and penniless for having wasted his inheritance through sinful behavior in worldly ways. 

While what is opposed to thinking that possible as a metaphor for the Christian today who can backslide and return to the father who will receive him, are what is spoken of as the older brother of the young prodigal son. Who did not see the younger return to the fathers home but in hearing he did and was received with joy and celebration, was enraged instead of at peace. Enraged that having walked away the younger son was received back when he chose to return. 

 

 

Thanks again.  So is it your contention that a "true" Christian can't also be a practicing homosexual or a fornicator (single couple living together out of wedlock). 

In other words, people in both of these examples may say they are Christian but to be living in those lifestyles is proof they CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God (salvation in Heaven). 

Is this correct? 

Thanks,

spock

[Happinessity]

1 minute ago, Spock said:

Thanks again.  So is it your contention that a "true" Christian can't also be a practicing homosexual or a fornicator (single couple living together out of wedlock). 

In other words, people in both of these examples may say they are Christian but to be living in those lifestyles is proof they CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God (salvation in Heaven). 

Is this correct? 

Thanks,

spock

I think when someone who is looking to be saved finds their calling to Jesus and does so, and yet they remain as they were before changing nothing about themselves except for the self title of Christian, that they are not actually redeemed in Christ. Because we are reborn when we are baptized and we are then washed clean of our old or former sinner self. God remembers our sins of that old self no longer. And those sins are washed clean by the blood of Christ on the cross. That was his mission to earth. To take the sins of the world upon himself on the cross. And whosoever believes in him will not then perish to their sins but will have everlasting life. Such is the promise, the covenant, for which Christ died. 

 Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

 

"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him." 1John 3:6

These are not the backsliding Christians I mentioned before. Those who are in Christ and then for some reason leave to do their own thing contrary to righteous actions. We're saved. We have but to repent and be sincere of heart so that we return ourselves to the place of faith God's grace called us to. It isn't that Jesus opens his hand and throws us away if we as a sincere repentant Christian fall away. No one can remove us from his hand. We can't even jump. 

But we can think we have been released from Jesus care if we backslide. And I think that is why the parable of the prodigal son returning home is so important here. Because it tells us that our father will always welcome us back . 

While those who just go through the motions not truly sincere of heart in accepting God's grace and instead assume the label of Christian without a sincere repentance and change in themselves as the redeemed in Christ are not actually in Christ. Which I believe is what the verse in 1st John 2:19.They went out from us but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have remained; but they went out from us to disclose that they were not of us.

 

We are in Christ as the redeemed by the grace of God. Where can we go that Christ and God would not know his own? Even if we strayed, God knows our heart. And welcomes us home with celebration when we repent of where we've been. 

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

So Shiloh, 

Applying this passage:

9Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with mena 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

That passage from I Corinthians occurs in the context of a discussion about not taking internal church matters to the magistrates of the city of Corinth.   He wants them to take care of the matter in house.  Why?   Because those magistrates are not fit to judge matters do to their immoral lifestyle.   Corinth was the most immoral city in the world at the time.  To be called a "Corinthian"  was a to be called an immoral person.   Paul's point is that the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, slanderers, and swindlers will not inherit the Kingdom of God and so they should not be allowed to sit in judgment on Kingdom matters.  

He is not setting forth a warning to the Corinthians that if they commit any of those sins, that they will lose their salvation.  That is not what he has in mind at all.  He is referencing the sinful magistrates and describing them, as to why they are unfit to judge matters pertaining to the church.
 

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Just to be clear, Is it your contention that one cannot be truly saved (a true believer) and also be living a sexually immoral lifestyle?  Such as a single couple living together for years but not married or a practicing homosexual who attends a Christian Church, sings in the choir, and says they believe in Jesus?

Btw, Both of these scenarios are right in front of me as we speak. I am just trying to understand Gods word in applying it. I know God has the final say on matters of salvation. I just enjoy reading your conclusions from the scriptures. 

Thanks,

spock

 

I John 3:9 says "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God."   So if you are living in habitual sin, you cannot claim to be an authentic follower of Jesus.   People who live impenitently in habitual sin and yet claim to be Christians need to examine the authenticity of their profession of faith.  They are probably not truly saved.   Their life and their words obviously do not agree.  True biblical faith always produces corresponding action.