false teacher

[brokenclay]

I have had encounters with people who believe in false doctrines but they usually don't want anything to do with attending the same church as me. This person not only attends, he uses scripture against anyone in the congregation who engages in a conversation with him. I suppose the easy way would be to tell him to put up or shut up. I could go on and on here but I really would appreciate some help with finding a website where I could accumulate some ammunition of my own. He overwhelms people with his knowledge but he uses it against us rather than fellowship with us. He doesn't believe in attending a church building, or having a pastor. He prefers to use the bible without the use of guide books. He doesn't believe in holidays, especially Christmas and Easter or Thanks Giving. If anyone's a scholar in our midst please help me.

[Yahsway]

Greetings brokenclay, First of all, I guess I would ask him if he doesnt believe in church buildings where people congregate, then what are you doing here?

I can understand some of which you are saying. Having studied the origional way in which the church was operating, most fellowshipped from house to house, or went to the synagouges. Maybe what he is referring to is that the body of Christ is the church and not the building per say. For sometime now I do have a problem with some assemblies building up the actual building instead of the body of believers. Maybe this is where he is coming from.

As far as Christmass, Easter, ect.. I too do not celebrate these (and no I am not JW or SDA) but believe that each should be persuaded in their own mind about doing so. I would venture to say he has studied up on their origions and maybe for him, he would not rather do it.

Personally, I believe guide books are fine, but using the scriptures alone is better. When we use guide books, we usually rely on the author of those books interpetation of scripture and , we all being human can sometimes make mistakes in our interpitations of such.

But since you are the one leading the class, tell him you would perfer all questions or comments to come after the lesson is over. God has given us pastors and teachers so I know that is biblical, he has probably been burned so to speak by some (as I have) so just bear with him. But dont allow him to take over the class.

This may take some patience on your part, and you maybe being tried for a reason, study up on what he has presented to you and see where he is coming from, then dig deep in those scriptures and ask God to guide you by the Holy Spirit into the truth. Then stand on that truth.

May God Bless you in this situation and give you His wisdom in this matter. Shalom

[nebula]

Without understanding your church nor how this man is operating, it is a little difficult to provide commentary, but if this means anything . . .

This person not only attends, he uses scripture against anyone in the congregation who engages in a conversation with him.

We've seen people on this Board using Scripture to support a bunch of wacko stuff, too.

He overwhelms people with his knowledge but he uses it against us rather than fellowship with us.

Hmmm . . . the not fellowshiping part raises a red flag.

Sometimes, you can't argue the finer points with people - you have to discern the heart, the motives, the fruit. People can be really good about using Scripture to their advantage.

You have to judge where this person is going with this.

If he has no desire to fellowship, then he doesn't belong, really. We are a body of believers, and we need to work together. I Corinthians 12

So, what kind of spirit is this man operating under? Is it love? Or is it pride?

Catch my drift here?

He doesn't believe in attending a church building, or having a pastor.

Like Yahsway said, so why is he going to a church building with a pastor?

Again, not knowing how he is going about things, my first incling would be that he's looking for recruits maybe?

I guess that depends on how forceful he is being with this. But that is the issue the church leaders need to address - what is his motive?

As for pastors, it is a Scriptural calling. I am wondering if it is the "ordination system" he's against. I agree there are problems with the system, although I cannot determine whether or not I would agree with his problem or not. But that's really a whole debate on its own.

Now, there is a house church movement going on, and there are lots of merits for this, and I personally tend to agree with those merits. So, I don't have a problem myself with someone promoting that; my concern would be the way he's going about doing that. For instance, why is he targeting your church? Is he speaking with gentleness or judgment?

Again, what are his motives?

He prefers to use the bible without the use of guide books.

Depends on what he means by "guide books."

We need the perspectives of other believers.

But we still need to know the voice of the Lord ourselves and not rely on what others say to understand spiritual truths. I mean, we need to do our own studying and seeking the Lord for direction.

The question is does this man believe he has a monopoly on the truth? That's a clear danger sign when one believes he doesn't need the voice and wisdom and discernment of other believers in his life. That is pride.

It is also the operation of cult leaders.

He doesn't believe in holidays, especially Christmas and Easter or Thanks Giving.

You should read this discussion we've been having about churches sponsoring Easter egg hunts.

Click here

Both sides of the argument are presented - with Scripture - so hopefully you might find things in there to help you out.

I hope you have found something in here that is useful.

Maybe you can post each question as separate posts in the Doctrinal forum and see what discussions come out of each individual topic.

You might get better answers that way.

LORD bless!

[Leonard]

This is easy! Your Pastor needs to pluck up his courage and throw the bum out!

[brokenclay]

This is easy!  Your Pastor needs to pluck up his courage and throw the bum out!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll certainly consider that option, unfortunately I'll have to ask some more believers if they feel threatened or challenged by this guy. I probably wouldn't be concerned about this person, but I have experience this kind of friendly fire(I'll call it) before with WatchTower members. I also considered the fact that God is using this to sharpen us up and encourage us to use his word in real life situations and not just Sunday School lessons. He is very zealous and overwhelming with the way he can use scripture skillfully.

I do however appreciate all your help and I don't scrutinize what anyone has to say. I will glean what wisdom my simple mind can grasp and use it for God's glory. After all, this guy may not even be saved. Your prayers are most welcome.

If there's any personal info you need to share, here's my email address:

Shermantank_7@hotmail.com .

[Guest destiny_child]

I know it's wrong to tear the body of Christ and disunite with opinions. But you need to self-examine your church and his comments or seek a 3rd party (preferably a pastor) about this behavior. Without exaclty detailing his comments or reaction, it's difficult to conclude.

[Leonard]

This is easy!

[brokenclay]

I know it's wrong to tear the body of Christ and disunite with opinions. But you need to self-examine your church and his comments or seek a 3rd party (preferably a pastor) about this behavior. Without exaclty detailing his comments or reaction, it's difficult to conclude.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your right, I do need more information. I should have tried to find out more but I became too defensive when he (as he puts it) teaches and exhorts. It's hard to remember discussions in detail. Maybe I should introduce him to this forum and give everyone a taste of what he is really like. Unless your very well versed you'll be defending yourself. I would also feel kind of stupid if he sees my remarks about a false teacher. Oh well, here goes.

[brokenclay]

Without understanding your church nor how this man is operating, it is a little difficult to provide commentary, but if this means anything . . .

This person not only attends, he uses scripture against anyone in the congregation who engages in a conversation with him.

We've seen people on this Board using Scripture to support a bunch of wacko stuff, too.

He overwhelms people with his knowledge but he uses it against us rather than fellowship with us.

Hmmm . . . the not fellowshiping part raises a red flag.

Sometimes, you can't argue the finer points with people - you have to discern the heart, the motives, the fruit. People can be really good about using Scripture to their advantage.

You have to judge where this person is going with this.

If he has no desire to fellowship, then he doesn't belong, really. We are a body of believers, and we need to work together. I Corinthians 12

So, what kind of spirit is this man operating under? Is it love? Or is it pride?

Catch my drift here?

He doesn't believe in attending a church building, or having a pastor.

Like Yahsway said, so why is he going to a church building with a pastor?

Again, not knowing how he is going about things, my first incling would be that he's looking for recruits maybe?

I guess that depends on how forceful he is being with this. But that is the issue the church leaders need to address - what is his motive?

As for pastors, it is a Scriptural calling. I am wondering if it is the "ordination system" he's against. I agree there are problems with the system, although I cannot determine whether or not I would agree with his problem or not. But that's really a whole debate on its own.

Now, there is a house church movement going on, and there are lots of merits for this, and I personally tend to agree with those merits. So, I don't have a problem myself with someone promoting that; my concern would be the way he's going about doing that. For instance, why is he targeting your church? Is he speaking with gentleness or judgment?

Again, what are his motives?

He prefers to use the bible without the use of guide books.

Depends on what he means by "guide books."

We need the perspectives of other believers.

But we still need to know the voice of the Lord ourselves and not rely on what others say to understand spiritual truths. I mean, we need to do our own studying and seeking the Lord for direction.

The question is does this man believe he has a monopoly on the truth? That's a clear danger sign when one believes he doesn't need the voice and wisdom and discernment of other believers in his life. That is pride.

It is also the operation of cult leaders.

He doesn't believe in holidays, especially Christmas and Easter or Thanks Giving.

You should read this discussion we've been having about churches sponsoring Easter egg hunts.

Click here

Both sides of the argument are presented - with Scripture - so hopefully you might find things in there to help you out.

I hope you have found something in here that is useful.

Maybe you can post each question as separate posts in the Doctrinal forum and see what discussions come out of each individual topic.

You might get better answers that way.

LORD bless!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have invited this fellow to sign-up with Worthy Chat. Unfortunely I have now slandered to poor fellow while trying to get answers to deal with him. He may or may not come on line. I won't know his chat name but I'm sure you recognize him.

He will be the one with all the answers from the bible. Meanwhile I shall go off and learn how to use my sword more effectively.

[nebula]

I won't know his chat name but I'm sure you recognize him.

He will be the one with all the answers from the bible.

Well, that will narrow the selection to about five people . . . .

BTW, you can ask a mod to delete this thread if you think it will be a hinderance.