The Book of Enoch

[Jude1:3]

15 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

It is true.  We can verify the authenticity of Scripture, but not the book of Enoch.  The manuscript evidence simply isn't there.

No, it's not true.

Tell me when Your "Official" canon was decided and by "Whom".

[other one]

For those of you reading this thread, I'll leave you with one request,  read "reversing Hermon" by Michael Hiser.  He has a docrtrite in Hebrew, other degrees in Greek and linguistics.  I don't have the time nor the will to try and cover the whole book on a thread here especially on this tablet.

But it is important.

[Jude1:3]

13 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

ET's are a myth and the fallen angel = ET's  nonsense is just more conspiracy not supported by Scripture. 

So you don't believe that angels fell from Heaven. Interesting. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Jude1:3

[Guest shiloh357]

10 minutes ago, Jude1:3 said:

There is in The Ethiopian Bible written in Geez. It's what R.H. Charles used to translate it into English.

John Strugnell said that he saw a Microfilm of an Aramaic version of Enoch that has never been published:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Strugnell

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_Enoch_Scroll

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

You don't understand what I mean by manuscript evidence.   The Greek NT alone has over 25,000 copies dating from within 50 years of the originals and spanning some 400-500 years and there is no evidence that they were changed or tampered with.  They agree at all points of comparison.

We do not have that kind of manuscript evidence for the book of Enoch or any other ancient text, for that matter.  The Bible is unique in that way.   There is an embarrassment of manuscript evidence for the New Testament in comparison with the book of Enoch, which has fewer copies in Hebrew or Aramaic than any other known ancient document.   Verifying it's accuracy is impossible from a manuscript evidence standpoint.

5 minutes ago, Jude1:3 said:

No, it's not true.

Tell me when Your "Official" canon was decided and by "Whom".

The canon was decided by God and discovered by the church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

3 minutes ago, Jude1:3 said:

So you don't believe that angels fell from Heaven. Interesting. 

I believe the angels fell.   I reject the claim that they are ET's.  ET's are a myth, a very sophistic, and carefully constructed myth, but a myth nonetheless.

[Jude1:3]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

The canon was decided by God and discovered by the church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Right I know that. I'm asking specifically what year and "what group" said it was official.

The reason why I'm asking this is because The Ancient Ethiopian Orthodox Church has always had it as apart of their canon.

I already posted this, but I just want to show you the reason why The Lord God Almighty hid away 1 Enoch for so long:

The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed.  And he took up his parable and said--Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw,but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

• 1 Enoch 1:1-2

 

Keep in mind that this is in The First Chapter and the same chapter that Jude quotes:

 

And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly:

And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

• 1 Enoch 1:9

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe004.htm

 

Even if we disagree about 1 Enoch I just want you to know that you are my Brother in Christ and I mean no disrespect. We are Iron sharpening Iron.

God Bless.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Jude1:3

[Justin Adams]

On 5/9/2017 at 7:35 PM, Guest said:

I would have to disagree with that because the first century Christians (meaning the bible authors themselves as well as OT authors) considered the Book of Enoch divinely inspired. My thoughts are that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has the complete canon (88 books). Enoch is quoted, mentioned and alluded to throughout the Bible. The compilation of the 66 came way after the first century Christians. I've learned that we have to take what the authors considered as sacred canon/important books to get a fuller understanding of the Bible.

Yes, I believe you are correct. Much of what is said here substantiates what may be happening in our world today. Sadly Nimrod's descendants have polluted the church with pagan festivals that are today upheld by our modern churches.

Then look at Easter. What means the term Easter itself? It is not a Christian name. It bears its Chaldean origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven, whose name, as pronounced by the people Nineveh, was evidently identical with that now in common use in this country. That name, as found by Layard on the Assyrian monuments, is Ishtar. The worship of Bel and Astarte was very early introduced into Britain, along with the Druids, “the priests of the groves.” Some have imagined that the Druidical worship was first introduced by the Phoenicians, who, centuries before the Christian era, traded to the tin-mines of Cornwall. But the unequivocal traces of that worship are found in regions of the British islands where the Phoenicians never penetrated, and it has everywhere left indelible marks of the strong hold which it must have had on the early British mind. From Bel, the 1st of May is still called Beltane in the Almanac; and we have customs still lingering at this day among us, which prove how exactly the worship of Bel or Moloch (for both titles belonged to the same god) had been observed even in the northern parts of this island. “The late Lady Baird, of Fern Tower, in Perthshire,” says a writer in “Notes and Queries,” thoroughly versed in British antiquities, “told me, that every year, at Beltane (or the 1st of May), a number of men and women assemble at an ancient Druidical circle of stones on her property near Crieff. They light a fire in the centre, each person puts a bit of oat-cake in a shepherd’s bonnet; they all sit down, and draw blindfold a piece from the bonnet. One piece has been previously blackened, and whoever gets that piece has to jump through the fire in the centre of the circle, and pay a forfeit. This is, in fact, a part of the ancient worship of Baal, and the person on whom the lot fell was previously burnt as a sacrifice. Now, the passing through the fire represents that, and the payment of the forfeit redeems the victim.” If Baal was thus worshipped in Britain, it will not be difficult to believe that his consort Astarte was also adored by our ancestors, and that from Astarte, whose name in Nineveh was Ishtar, the religious solemnities of April, as now practised, are called by the name of Easter–that month, among our Pagan ancestors, having been called Easter-monath. The festival, of which we read in Church history, under the name of Easter, in the third or fourth centuries, was quite a different festival from that now observed in the Romish Church, and at that time was not known by any such name as Easter. It was called Pasch, or the Passover, and though not of Apostolic institution, * was very early observed by many professing Christians, in commemoration of the death and resurrection of Christ.  [http://www.hourofthetime.com/wordpresstest/eastre-ishtar-astarte-easter-2/]

[Jude1:3]

I found another verse in Revelation that goes with 1 Enoch 20:

 

When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.  And I saw The Seven Angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.

• Revelation 8:1-2


And these are the Names of The Holy Angels who watch.  Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and over Tartarus. Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men. Raguel, one of the holy angels who †takes vengeance on† the world of the luminaries. Michael, one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ over chaos. . Saraqâêl, one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit. Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim. Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise.
• 1 Enoch 20

[Jude1:3]

More scriptures referring to the 7 Angels :

John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from The Seven Spirits who are before His throne,

• Revelation 1:4

 

The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The Seven Stars Are The Angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.

• Revelation 1:20

 

But to which of The Angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?  

Are they not all  Ministering Spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

• Hebrews 1:13-14

 

And these are the Names of The Holy Angels who watch.  Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and over Tartarus. Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men. Raguel, one of the holy angels who †takes vengeance on† the world of the luminaries. Michael, one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ over chaos. . Saraqâêl, one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit. Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim. Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise.
• 1 Enoch 20

 

 

 

 

[ytLiJC]

On 5/9/2017 at 7:41 PM, Guest said:

To understand the Catholic and Protestant Bibles we must know what books the Biblical authors considered important and divinely inspired during the time they wrote the biblical manuscripts. Books outside the traditional 66 have been mentioned in the Bible in three different ways: by name, quotation, or alluded too. So what books did the biblical authors consider important? Here is a list:

1) The Book of Jasher

2) The Annals of Jehu

3) The Treatise of the book of Kings

4) The book of Records, Book of Chronicans of Ahasuerus

5) The Acts of Solomon

6) The Sayings of Hozai

7) The Chronicles of David

8) The Book of Wars of the Lord

9)The Chronicals of Samuel, Nathan, Gad

10) Samuels Book

11) The Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite

12) The Treatise of the Prophet Iddo

13) The Book of Enoch

Both OT and NT writers of the Bible considered the Book of Enoch to be divinely inspired, and it is included in the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible which is actually 88 books.

If a book is mentioned, quoted, or alluded to is it worthy of study if it expands the understanding of the Bible and why Jesus Christ came to earth? The theory of the book of Enoch is that it was written prior to the book of Genesis and then before that was kept through verbal oral tradition. Our earliest manuscripts date to the 2nd to 3rd centuries BC but scholars believe this is not the original date of the Enochian canon. The first century Christians considered the book of Enoch as inspired canon if not authentic.

Thoughts?

 

Enoch was the first great Prophet of the true God, and part of His prophetic book is quoted by St Jude in His epistle; so why not it be true?!, it is another question whether we understand what is written in Scripture correctly or not (because it is much better for us to admit that we don't know or aren't aware than to be false prophets)

Blessings

Edited November 10, 2017 by ytLiJC

[Justin Adams]

On 5/9/2017 at 7:39 PM, wingnut- said:

I would second what Willa offered, and add this specifically in regards to Enoch.  There is no doubt that Enoch is a prophet of God, the question of that simply comes down to the timing of it.  In my opinion Enoch will prophesy to the world, but that will not occur until the final 3 1/2 years of this age.  He will represent one of the two olive branches, one being Jewish, the other being Gentile.  Enoch was a Gentile as he pre-dated the existence of Israel, therefore excluding him as a Jew.

God bless

We have to be careful here. Abraham: was he a Jew, or Israelite? The Lord took a people of mixed races and backgrounds and formed a nation from them. Tithing and sacrificial rites along with covenant making was also well known and practiced long before the Law was inscribed on tablets of stone.
It is the Lord God we are thinking of here, and how He fulfills His purposes. Man's understanding is so limited.

It is interesting to note that when Saul (Paul) made his declarations that 'all scripture was of benefit, for exhortation and teaching etc.' that the canon was not yet formed. The canon's formation is an interesting study in itself. I do not think that man possesses the knowledge and understanding to really determine very much. Look at the arguments in favor of Enoch vs Revelations and a couple others. Look at the 1684 sudden elimination of 14 book of the 1611 KJV by the Roman church. Now we have 66 that Rome chose. Do you really want to extol the Authority of Rome? 

In the end analysis, the Lord can work with anything He so chooses. So just because He speaks to us thru only 66 books does not mean anything deterministic about what you should or should not read and learn from. With the Holy Spirit as our guide, much can be learned from Books like Jasher and Enoch.
Sadly, to our hurt often, I have been ridiculed on this site and called a teacher of heresy merely because I am not afraid to read and talk about other books of the bible than the Sacred Roman choice of just 66. Yeshua created our world from nought. He is well able to speak from whatever scriptures He chooses. That mankind sets itself up to murder over mere words is a sad witness to the hearts of men and their prejudices.