Ecumenism: "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

[Mike Mclees]

2 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Can't really tell if you understood my post or not.....or whether you agreed with it or not.....or whether you somehow took it amiss when I had meant it kindly.....and/or whether you are diverting attention away from the point of my post, which is a very important one.

Yes, I consider that denominational names are contrivances of the flesh.......as is the concept of canonizing.  Actually, it really does seem you are not "hearing" what the scriptures are saying about the simplicity of Christ?

Does this mean you believe we should stop bringing correction and the word of God to bear ?  Stop pointing to Jesus and the things He taught, and the apostles?  Just let everyone go their own way and don't disturb anyone as they sleepwalk off cliffs, and don't try to remind and show what scripture teaches and what THE Way is?  That's the very reason we are in the falling away now.......because political correctness has invaded the churches the way it is trying to invade this forum as we speak.

More so than just political correctness but political mindedness thinking politics works with the church just as the church of Rome is deeply integrated into the politics of the world. To follow after politics is to follow Babylon and the way of the world.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Mike Mclees

[Fidei Defensor]

13 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

More so than just political correctness but political mindedness thinking politics works with the church just as the church of Rome is deeply integrated into the politics of the world. To follow after politics is to follow Babylon and the way pf the world.

Politics has certainly altered the Church since Constantine The Great (312-324 A.D.) However, if it weren’t for the Romanite Church Politic, Catholics and Protestants would not exist. The Political Church of Rome won the crucial battles of Lepanto, Malta, Rhodes, and Hasburg Wars and in turn saved Christendom (The Church around the world). Even Martin Luther celebrated the victory of Lepanto.

One one hand, I agree Church Politica doesn’t work for personal faith and it is better to follow the Bible which has no Christian Kingdom except Christ’s Kingdom which is coming in the flesh (Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-9, Zachariah 14:3, Revelation 21:1-4). 

However, I cannot ignore that the Roman Church saved the whole church from annihilation from 1565-1791 A.D. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Fidei Defensor

[Mike Mclees]

The word teaches us we are to be of one mind, one body,and one spirit 

24 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Politics has certainly altered the Church since Constantine The Great (313-324 A.D.) However, if it weren’t for the Romanite Church Politic, Catholics and Protestants would not exist. The Political Church of Rome won the crucial battles of Lepanto, Malta, Rhodes, and Hasburg Wars and in turn saved Christendom (The Church around the world). Even Martin Luther celebrated the victory of Lepanto.

One one hand, I agree Church Politica doesn’t work for personal faith and it is better to follow the Bible which has no Christian Kingdom except Christ’s Kingdom which is coming in the flesh (Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-9, Zachariah 14:3, Revelation 21:1-4). 

However, I cannot ignore that the Roman Church saved the whole church from annihilation from 1565-1791 A.D. 

 

I wish I could agree but I don't. The Bishops of Rome and Constantine paved the road to apostacy and confusion. They gave way to all we see today which is of confusion. Denominationalism was the fruit of the tree. Jesus said the gates of hell will come against the church because the church is not founded organized church systems but it is founded in our faith, and the spirit. Christ is our hope and the hope of the church. Ecumenism only is another fruit of confusion that takes our eyes off what true unity is. if only fidei could see it. We cannot after other churches who have long lost their sight.    

Edited August 29, 2018 by Mike Mclees

[Heleadethme]

32 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

More so than just political correctness but political mindedness thinking politics works with the church just as the church of Rome is deeply integrated into the politics of the world. To follow after politics is to follow Babylon and the way of the world.

Amen....nail on the head brother, and well said.  That's exactly what is erroneously being promoted here, it's essentially a political solution to perceived disunity.

[Fidei Defensor]

16 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

The word teaches us we are to be of one mind, one body,and one spirit 

I wish I could agree but I don't. The Bishops of Rome and Constantine paved the road to apostacy and confusion. They gave way to all we see today which is of confusion. Denominationalism was the fruit of the tree. Jesus said the gates of hell will come against the church because the church is not founded organized church systems but it is founded in our faith, and the spirit. Christ is our hope and the hope of the church. Ecumenism only is another fruit of confusion that takes our eyes off what true unity is. if only fidei could see it. We cannot after other churches who have long lost their sight.    

You are entitled to that view and I respect you for it though I don’t agree. I believe ecumenism in a positive way can lead to what Jesus desired, “that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. “ (John 17:21-23). 

[Fidei Defensor]

“Surely we can only come to understand each other's beliefs by means of direct encounter and open, honest discussion. In the meantime, many free churches invite all believers in Jesus Christ to the Table for the sake of true spiritual unity that transcends intellectual differences of interpretation. Withholding sacramental sharing on the basis of disagreement about the nature of the Lord's Supper seems odd to us. What two people think exactly alike about the act? We are not offended by Catholics' closed Communion, but we find it odd and exclusive. It places intellectual understanding above fellowship among disciples of Jesus Christ.”

-Roger E. Olson

[Fidei Defensor]

28 minutes ago, Davida said:

 

Those scriptures above are not an instruction for ecumenism. The Lord Christ Jesus knows who are HIS and His sheep are already gathered we are one with God through Jesus.   You are trying to claim there is something lacking, or something that needs to be done  in the body of believers but there isn't - the Lord Jesus has already done it & gave us the Holy Spirit.   

Jesus also taught about tares and wheat and goats and sheep, and false teachers & false Christs & the falling away.  

Matthew 13:24-30 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Tares among Wheat

²⁴ Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.  But when the ^]wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.  The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’  And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’  But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.  Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

How is it not an instruction for unity when Jesus says He wants us to be One and in complete unity?, “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. “ (John 17:21-23). 

[Fidei Defensor]

I had a thought on Ecumenism. The trust ecumenism will be when Jesus returns (Revelation 19:11-16, 20:4-9, 21:1-4). We are suppose to pray Jesus comes quickly, “The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” (Revelation 22:17), and “Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.” (Revelation 22:20). Thus when we pray come quickly Lord Jesus we are asking for the greatest form of ecumenism!

While we pray and wait, we can build relationships and bridges across denominations and do ecumenism that way until the fullness of ecumenism happens. 

@listener24

Linking to the Unprecendetsd Event: 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Fidei Defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

47 minutes ago, Cletus said:

Ecumenism: "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

 

That sounds good dont it?  unity.  sounds like sweet love in the air.  It just tickles the ear, dont it?  togetherness.  Laying our differences in belief aside and... wait...what what?

Oh my... Titus 2 says this...

Tit 2:1  But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
Tit 2:2  That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
Tit 2:3  The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Tit 2:4  That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Tit 2:5  To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
Tit 2:6  Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.
Tit 2:7  In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
Tit 2:8  Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

sounds like sound doctrine has importance.  Unity pushes this aside.  Unity says its ok to fellowship with someone who holds to a false doctorine, its ok embrace and join together.   2 important things to consider is how someone lives... is there fruit, and then of course doctrine.  Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.  When someone speaks something that dont line up with Gods word, and i do not mean a tiny misunderstanding of a particular verse but something that one will build a foundation of faith upon... when those words do not line up with scripture whats in their heart is not something you want to join in "unity" with. 

If separation of the body, division even, if this is the problem to start with,(mainly because of false doctrine) different religions that all want to say they are Christian, or of Christ what good will come of this? the solution is to forget about religion all together. believe what the bible says and follow Jesus.  Claiming a denomination does absolutely nothing for you, it does not bring you closer to God.  it does not make you more spiritual.  even by taking a non-denomination stance is conformism to non-conformism.  its a label.  What banner is the message of unity holding up?  is it all of us coming together no matter what, even if those in unity are not truly christian... Or is it raising the banner that says Jesus Christ is LORD? 

unity.  tolerance.  all of this is new vocabulary on mans time line.  fairly recent timeline.  there has been a push for it for a while now, yes... but this is not a thing that is inspired of the Holy Spirit.  its origins are from the devil.  Do not be lured into this snare by words that sounds good.  Guard your heart because the bible gives warning to in proverbs 4:

Pro 4:14  Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men.
Pro 4:15  Avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it, and pass away.
Pro 4:16  For they sleep not, except they have done mischief; and their sleep is taken away, unless they cause some to fall.
Pro 4:17  For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.
Pro 4:18  But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
Pro 4:19  The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.
Pro 4:20  My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
Pro 4:21  Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
Pro 4:22  For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.
Pro 4:23  Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
Pro 4:24  Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.
Pro 4:25  Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee.
Pro 4:26  Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established.
Pro 4:27  Turn not to the right hand nor to the left: remove thy foot from evil.

Actually unity has been in works a long time since 1055 A.D. and 16th Century. It only is now that denominations are starting to speak to each other and build friendships. 

The Roman ans Eastern Orthodox have been trying to unite. There has been hope that Protestants and Catholics can unite. 

However, the unity I advocate is not these particular ecumenisms⬆️, but these kinds of ecumenism (build relationships), and ecumenism (end times Jesus Returns). 

[Fidei Defensor]

42 minutes ago, Davida said:

It is a misinterpretation of this scripture, you are pretending this is a command from Jesus it isn't - it was  a prayer to the heavenly Father and declarative.  The Lord Jesus was praying over His sheep  and it is already done. You think it's your job ?  You have no idea who is HIS Church--GOD knows- leave it to HIM. Or you will be gathering fruit and thistles, wheat and tares etc.....

I am not pretending anything. Jesus says “complete unity,” and the Apostle Paul tells us not to be divided, “

10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[b]”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)17 For Christ did not send me to baptize,but to preach the gospel—not with wisdomand eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.” (1 Corinthians 1:10-17).