Old Earth or Young Earth

[enoob57]

Many people stray outside the authority of Scripture... but the literal hermeneutic of what I posted 500 from 600 leaves 100 years max possible... thus the 120 cannot be Ark building date!

[dprprb]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 10:10 AM, enoob57 said:

'120 years is the time Noah has to build the ark' not according to Scripture but is commonly taught as truth but denies the Biblical timeline God set forth:

Genesis 5:32 (KJV)

[32] And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

 

Genesis 6:9 (KJV)

[9] These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

[10] And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

[11] The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

[12] And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

[14] Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

Genesis 7:6 (KJV)

[6] And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

The very most Scripture allowes is 100 years.... whatever the 120 it cannot be Ark build time!
   Love, Steven

 

 I mean when God changes the lifespan of people at the time of the nephilim mention in Gen 6- this is not a reference to the build time of the ark. the change of rate is 1000::120  - why ignore something like that in our thinking?

[SavedOnebyGrace]

Quote

 

How Long Did It Take for Noah to Build the Ark?

by Bodie Hodge on June 1, 2010

Some confuse God’s statement in Genesis 6:3 as describing the time it took Noah to build the Ark. It says:

Genesis 6:3
And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."

However, these 120 years are a countdown to the Flood.1 In other words, mankind’s violence had reached its peak and God declared that 120 years was the “drop dead” date for mankind who is a mortal being (Genesis 6:3-7 ). From a quick look, these 120 years would seem to be the absolute maximum for the time given to build the Ark, but the Scriptures reveal much more allowing us to be more accurate.

For example, Noah was 500 years old when Japheth, the first of his sons, was born (Genesis 5:32 ). And yet, Noah’s second son, Shem, had his first son two years after the Flood, when he was 100 ( Genesis 11:10).2 This means that Shem was 98 years old when the Flood came and it also means that Shem was born when Noah was 502 years old. So, for Noah to begin having children at 500 means that Japheth was indeed the older brother, as per Genesis 10:21, being born when Noah was 500. Ham is mentioned as the youngest of Noah (Genesis 9:24).

When God finally gave Noah instructions to build the Ark, it was not at the beginning of the 120 year countdown. God told Noah that he, his wife, and his three sons and their wives (Genesis 6:14–18)3 would go aboard the Ark at this same time.

Deducing that Shem was born 98 years before the Flood, it could be no more than this. But even more so, Ham hadn’t been born yet! If we were to assume the same time between Ham and Shem as between Japheth and Shem, then Ham could have been born around 96 years before the Flood.

Although the Bible is silent on the exact timing, it is reasonable to assume that some time elapsed for the three sons to grow up and find a wife. I would be most comfortable giving a range of anywhere from 20 to 40 years making Ham no less than 16 at his marriage.

So if we think about this logically and tabulate it:

Years until the FloodEventBible Reference

120 Countdown to the Flood beginsGenesis 6:3

100 Noah has Japheth, the first of his sons, when he was 500 years old.Genesis 5:32; 10:21

98 Noah has Shem who was 100 two years after the Flood.Genesis 11:10

? Perhaps 95 or 96 the same time between Japheth and Shem.Ham was the youngest one born to Noah and was aboard the Ark so he was born prior to the Flood.Genesis 9:24; Genesis 7:13

? Perhaps 20-40 years for all of the sons to be raised and find a wifeEach son was old enough to be married before construction on the Ark begins.Genesis 6:18

~ 55-75 years (estimate)Noah was told to build the Ark, for he, his wife, his sons, and his sons’ wives would be aboard the Ark.Genesis 6:18

Ark Completed

? Gather food and put it aboard the Ark.Genesis 6:21

7 daysLoading the Ark.Genesis 7:1-4

0 Noah was 600 when the floodwaters came on the earth.Genesis 7:6

We would end up with a tentative range of about 55 to 75 years for a reasonable maximum time to build the Ark. Of course, it could be less than this depending on the age that Noah’s sons took wives.

Consider that the Ark was completed prior to loading the animals that the Lord brought to Noah (Genesis 7:1-4) and that they had to take time to gather food and store it aboard the Ark (Genesis 6:21). So carefully considering the text, we can conclude that the construction of the Ark did not involve the 120 years mentioned in Genesis 6:3 but 75 years at the most.

Footnotes

Some have also described this as the longevity of mankind. For a number of generations after the Flood, people lived to be much older than this (e.g., Isaac lived to 180 years), so it is not referring to longevity.See all footnotes.

Shem is often listed first (e.g., Genesis 6:10, 7:13) due to importance much as Abraham is listed first; yet, Shem was not the oldest. From the lineage of Shem and Abraham came Christ.See all footnotes.

Youngest is used in ESV, NAS, and other translations for the word qatan which means small, young, or insignificant.

 

 

[HAZARD]

 

Scriptures show that originally, Long before Adam and Eve were created, God created the Earth and placed Lucifer as ruler of the society there.

 

 

 

God gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

 

Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before "Iniquity was found in him. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Before Adam Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth.

God is taking about Lucifer in these Scriptures. He was a perfect created angelic arc angel; "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Lucifer wanted to control the universe and knock God off His throne. He over a long period of time convinced one third of God's angels to rebell with him and they rebelled against God and His universal rule, and invaded heaven to try and de-throne God Himself. (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is simple for most men to understand, so they reject it. Especially the churches for some reason.

 

This doctrin is simple for most men to understand, so they reject it. Especially the churches for some reason. I have never heard a priest or pastor talk about these things, the devil does not want anyone to know this and so closes the eyes of many.

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language,

 5, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

 6, Whereby the world "THAT THEN WAS," being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
  7, But the heavens and the earth, "WHICH ARE NOW," by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
If "the world that then was" is the same as that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God made "the heavens and the earth which are now", since the flood of Noah, but this the Bible does not teach. There is no statement in any Scripture that the heavens and the Earth which are now differ from what they were between the times of Adam and Noah. On the contrary, we have a clear record that in six days God made "the heavens and the earth which are now," and there is no record anywhere of a change being made in them by Noahs flood, so that they would have to be made over again after the flood. What kind of change could a flood make in the heavens and the Earth? No flood could change the heavens, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. If a change is to be made in the heavens, it must be by divine acts of power other than by floods. At Noahs time no changes were made even in the Earth, much less in the heavens. All that happened was that some men and animals on Earth were drowned. Earth, vegetation, etc., remained the same after the flood as before it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

God destroyed the earth in His anger. GOD CREATED THE EARTH AND THE HEAVEN IN GEN.1:1, THEN GOD DESTROYED THE EARTH AS SHOWN IN GENESIS 1:2..

 

Jeremiah 4:23-28, “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.”

 

This was not Noah's flood as many teach. There were men, animals, birds, sun, moon stars which all remained during Noah's flood.

 

Could the Bible be any clearer that God in His anger made the earth without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep? The cities were inhabited by angels. Man had not been created yet. Argue as one may, these Scriptures plainly evidence why the earth was without form and void in Genesis 1:1.

In fact, Jeremiah 4:23 even repeats the exact phrase word-for-word. These Scriptures cannot be ignored if one is to be an honest Bible student.

 

Carefully notice that Lucifer dwelt upon the earth prior to his rebellion. Isaiah 14:13-14; 13, For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: V. 14,  will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”  

 

Lucifer's sin was wanting EQUALITY with God. This is the same sin of feminists today, who want to be EQUAL with male authority in marriage, home, church and society. God has ordained masculine authority in the humanity. Women are equal in worth, intelligence and importance to God; but the man is to lead, not the woman.

 

When Lucifer sinned, he wasn't immediately punished by God. We know that Lucifer wasn't banned from Heaven because Satan appears before God in Job 1:6-7.

Satan will be judged, convicted and punished at The Great White Throne Of Judgment with the rest of the wicked (Revelation 20:11-15). Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna - Hell) forever to burn and be tormented night and day without rest. 2nd Peter 2:4 also tells us that the angels bound in Hell are RESERVED unto judgment. So neither the Devil nor the demons have been punished yet for their wickedness.

Those who believe in a Young Earth vehemently reject the idea that there's a Gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2; but as you've just read, God destroyed the cities of the earth and made the land desolate. Light ceased to shine (the sun, moon and stars were blocked out by God). The mountains trembled and moved. The earth had been a fruitful wilderness where dinosaurs and prehistoric birds and mammals lived.

***************************************************************************************************************************

 

The Bible says that God created the sun and the moon in the beginning; YEC says that God created the sun and the moon in the fourth day.
 
The Bible says that God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning; YEC says that God created the heavens and the earth in six days.
 
Young Earth Creationism misunderstands the Genesis account of God's creation when it misinterprets the very first verse of the Bible (Genesis 1:1) as being a summary statement of the six-day creation account, which is described in Genesis 1:3-31. This misunderstanding of the very first verse of the Bible has led Young Earth Creationism to believe that God created the earth on the first day without the sun, and that it wasn't until the fourth day that God created the sun, the moon and the stars. This is not only biblically untrue but also scientifically nonsensical. It is impossible for a 24-hour day comprising of both light and darkness, day and night with morning and evening to occur, without both the earth and the sun existing together. This is elementary physics and common sense. The Bible is extremely logical and it does not contradict true science, after all God Himself is the greatest scientist. God does not want us to believe in something that is illogical and scientifically stupid.

 

[simplejeff]

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one ...

biblehub.com/romans/5-12.htm - Cached - Similar

New International Version Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because ...

[HAZARD]

2 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one ...

biblehub.com/romans/5-12.htm - Cached - Similar

New International Version Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because ...

This verse has nothing to do with the old earth or Lucifers rebellion. It has to do with the Earth since its re-creation. Continue to read through to  verses 12-21, Paul shows that the consequences of Christs obedience extend as far as Adam's disobedience. Gentiles are decendants of Adam and partake of his sin and its consequences, so they are free to partake of the redemption of Christ.

This again puts the Gentiles on equal basis with Jews in Adam, Abraham, and Christ. Sin is of universal effect. From Adam all men derive their beings (Acts 17:26).

The whole race was in his loins when he sinned. He was its spiritual, moral, and physical fountainhead, and its sole representative. He did not act as a single person but as a whole race. When he fell he sinned for all. When God contracted with him, it was a contract for the whole race. His progeny became a part of the covenant and blessings if he obeyed and of the curses is he sinned.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

16 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one ...

biblehub.com/romans/5-12.htm - Cached - Similar

New International Version Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because ...

The Greek word translated world in Romans 5:12 is kosmos. It’s primary meaning is “an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government” It is generally translated world, but in the sense that it means our world, the way it’s presently constituted, not any that might have existed before it. It is not the same as the Greek word used for Earth, which is Ge, from which we get geology. The fall of Satan is widely accepted as having taken place before Adam, and does not conflict with the interpretation of Romans 5 that sin entered our world with Adam and death through sin.

In short, the gap theory as I’ve explained it is based on the narrowest and most literal interpretation of Scripture.

[HAZARD]

Quote

"In short, the gap theory as I’ve explained it is based on the narrowest and most literal interpretation of Scripture."

.

In your opinion! And your entitled to it, no worries at all

There is no possible way you have read my entire post and checked every Scripture, (not one, not two or three but dozens of them), that clearly teach the world was originally ruled by Lucifer who rebelled and led a rebellion into Heaven to try and de-throne God.

Lucifer dwelt upon the earth prior to his rebellion. Isaiah 14:13-14; 13, For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: V. 14,  will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”  

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language,

 5, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

 6, Whereby the world "THAT THEN WAS," being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
  7, But the heavens and the earth, "WHICH ARE NOW," by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
If "the world that then was" is the same as that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God made "the heavens and the earth which are now", since the flood of Noah, but this the Bible does not teach. There is no statement in any Scripture that the heavens and the Earth which are now differ from what they were between the times of Adam and Noah. On the contrary, we have a clear record that in six days God made "the heavens and the earth which are now," and there is no record anywhere of a change being made in them by Noahs flood, so that they would have to be made over again after the flood. What kind of change could a flood make in the heavens and the Earth? No flood could change the heavens, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. If a change is to be made in the heavens, it must be by divine acts of power other than by floods. At Noahs time no changes were made even in the Earth, much less in the heavens. All that happened was that some men and animals on Earth were drowned. Earth, vegetation, etc., remained the same after the flood as before it.

 

[JohnD]

On 5/11/2017 at 0:50 AM, Allroses48 said:

The Young Earth theory was first started by an Irish archbishop and St. Bede in the 1600's+/- a few years. The early Hebrew and Christians never believed the earth was young. This was the product of very bad math done on the Bible. I believe the God created the universe and science tells us how it happened. The early Hebrews and Christians also believed the 7 day creation was an allegory as the word for yom has multiple meanings not just a 24 hour period, but an unknown space of time. The only problem I have with the evolution theory is that God isn't included and some of the testing instruments can yield questionable data.

This is an oversimplification. 

How old is old? How young is young?

The precise genealogies gave early Hebrews and Christians an idea / framework to go on about the heavens and the earth not being more than a few thousand of our years old. 

Time is relative (more so than we think). Time passes quickly when we are having fun... getting older... more slowly when we are working or are being punished...

In fact time is slowed by gravity. Planet Mercury's year is 88 of our days long. But how long is it on planet Mercury? It's less than half the distance to the sun from our perspective.

Space is continuously up-welling / expanding exponentially... huge voids essentially free of gravity exist.

Suppose the universe is 'unpacking' like an unzip program?

and yom has a more exacting meaning than you believe?    

 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

15 hours ago, HAZARD said:

.

In your opinion! And your entitled to it, no worries at all

There is no possible way you have read my entire post and checked every Scripture, (not one, not two or three but dozens of them), that clearly teach the world was originally ruled by Lucifer who rebelled and led a rebellion into Heaven to try and de-throne God.

Lucifer dwelt upon the earth prior to his rebellion. Isaiah 14:13-14; 13, For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: V. 14,  will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”  

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language,

 5, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

 6, Whereby the world "THAT THEN WAS," being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
  7, But the heavens and the earth, "WHICH ARE NOW," by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
If "the world that then was" is the same as that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God made "the heavens and the earth which are now", since the flood of Noah, but this the Bible does not teach. There is no statement in any Scripture that the heavens and the Earth which are now differ from what they were between the times of Adam and Noah. On the contrary, we have a clear record that in six days God made "the heavens and the earth which are now," and there is no record anywhere of a change being made in them by Noahs flood, so that they would have to be made over again after the flood. What kind of change could a flood make in the heavens and the Earth? No flood could change the heavens, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. If a change is to be made in the heavens, it must be by divine acts of power other than by floods. At Noahs time no changes were made even in the Earth, much less in the heavens. All that happened was that some men and animals on Earth were drowned. Earth, vegetation, etc., remained the same after the flood as before it.

By now after 3100+ posts, you should remember that I'm a fervent supporter of the Gap Theory and an Old Earth.  Unless you've changed, I thought you were too.  The Gap Theory is the most literal interpretation of Holy Scripture.