Psalm 27:5

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

Romans 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In case you missed it: SELF is just not included in this list. We as in each individual can separate us from the Love of God. We got in (to the sheep fold) by our will, and we can leave by our will.

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

Why aren't we talking about the other 6 churches, they are found in the same book?  Why is it that pre-tribbers only see one lampstand and not all 7 of them?  You don't apply that to the seals, trumpets, or bowls.  In case you haven't noticed, there are 7 of those as well.

As for the marriage and supper that discussion is taking place in another thread, don't try derailing this one to avoid your inability to address it.

God bless

Why is it posttrib does not recognize that the Olivet discourse is directed to the JEWS and the 70th week? Always remember, there are two sides to every coin.

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

So what does that make this?  A shorter short time?  Half a short time?

 

Revelation 8  When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

 

Like I said, Greek is not an extinct language, it is amazing to watch people treat it as though it is because they are not fluent in it.

God bless

You are the one that brought up metaphors!

[iamlamad]

22 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Want to interject a question here.  Don't you think God can shield all, everyone of his children in the tribulation period and not one hair would be touched.  Is that possible ?.  He did with the three Hebrews boys in the fire that  the Babylonian king sent them too.  Why can't he not protect that are his own, as he said he would .   Men think in regards to their limitations, with God there is none.   Even though, let say saints are killed in the tribulation period, aren't you destined for eternal life anyway, why the fear. Did not the Lord say many times to "Fear not', then again it is natural for man to do so as it is his nature.

It is NOT possible because His word is already out and He is not changing it! He has said that the saints will be overcome. What part of overcome is hard to understand?

Who said anything about fear? We are trying to understand the word of God and His intent in the scriptures.

Yes, OF COURSE those who lose their head will go to heaven, if they lose it for the right reason. But what happens before that? Have you ever been very thirsty, like being in a desert all day without water? Thirst can become a very powerful motivator. How many will take the mark just to get water? This is PRESSURE, and why Jesus called these the days of great tribulation. His plan is that we His children escape those days. Many will not. They simply will not believe Luke 21:36. And others will not believe in Jesus until it is too late and they have missed the first train out.

[wingnut-]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

In case you missed it: SELF is just not included in this list. We as in each individual can separate us from the Love of God. We got in (to the sheep fold) by our will, and we can leave by our will.

 

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

[wingnut-]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Why is it posttrib does not recognize that the Olivet discourse is directed to the JEWS and the 70th week? Always remember, there are two sides to every coin.

 

Because we understand who the elect represents.  Also, many of us understand history, and the fulfillment of prophecy when we read it.

I think it should be quite telling as to what theory is true when you do not address scripture that disproves your claims and simply try to deflect to another topic.  It is safe to say you will never address the questions posed to you because you cannot do so, which exposes the weakness of your theory.

God bless

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

Because we understand who the elect represents.  Also, many of us understand history, and the fulfillment of prophecy when we read it.

I think it should be quite telling as to what theory is true when you do not address scripture that disproves your claims and simply try to deflect to another topic.  It is safe to say you will never address the questions posed to you because you cannot do so, which exposes the weakness of your theory.

God bless

Two sides to every coin: TWO different groups that God has called "the elect."

The challenge for posttribbers: prove by scripture that the gathering in Matthew 24 is Paul's gathering.

Show us step by step, or moment by moment the events of Christ's coming, with the rapture, the parable of the tares, the sheep and goat judgment, and the start of the Millennial Kingdom. Show us all HOW you will get believers on earth at the start of the Millennium to repopulate the earth. Include HOW there will be sheep at this sheep and goat judgment.

Include in this HOW the church will get to the wedding.

By the way,  I don't think this has ever been done.

Next, explain why, if the church is still on earth, only the 144,000 Jews get sealed for their protection?

Next, explain How Paul's "not destined for wrath" verse fits with a posttrib rapture.

Explain why Luke tells us there is an escape planned by God, when you demand there is no escape.

Explain why the 70th week is for Daniel's people, but posttribbers leave the church here for that time too.

Sorry, but the preponderance of the evidence is for a pretrib rapture.

If these questions had been previously answered with a good exegesis of scripture, there would be very few pretribbers around.

The truth is, they never have been answered successfully. The posttrib rhetoric simply does not fit the entirety of scripture.

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

For sure no one ELSE can snatch us. He holds us very securely: but He will allow anyone to leave if they desire. God will not force any human to serve Him.

[wingnut-]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Two sides to every coin: TWO different groups that God has called "the elect."

The challenge for posttribbers: prove by scripture that the gathering in Matthew 24 is Paul's gathering.

Show us step by step, or moment by moment the events of Christ's coming, with the rapture, the parable of the tares, the sheep and goat judgment, and the start of the Millennial Kingdom. Show us all HOW you will get believers on earth at the start of the Millennium to repopulate the earth. Include HOW there will be sheep at this sheep and goat judgment.

Include in this HOW the church will get to the wedding.

By the way,  I don't think this has ever been done.

Next, explain why, if the church is still on earth, only the 144,000 Jews get sealed for their protection?

Next, explain How Paul's "not destined for wrath" verse fits with a posttrib rapture.

Explain why Luke tells us there is an escape planned by God, when you demand there is no escape.

Explain why the 70th week is for Daniel's people, but posttribbers leave the church here for that time too.

Sorry, but the preponderance of the evidence is for a pretrib rapture.

If these questions had been previously answered with a good exegesis of scripture, there would be very few pretribbers around.

The truth is, they never have been answered successfully. The posttrib rhetoric simply does not fit the entirety of scripture.

 

You're still trying to derail this thread because you cannot justify your claim.  This thread is about Psalm 27:5, try addressing the topic at hand rather than avoiding it.

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, inchrist said:

But your notion on hidden away comes from psalm 27:5

You cant be hidden in heaven surrounded by your enemy. 

 Then my head will be exalted
    above the enemies who surround me;

 

No, my notion of being hidden away comes from Paul and from John 14. Paul was the ONLY writer of the scriptures who had a revelation of the rapture. If we wish to know about the rapture, Paul is the place to consult. John saw the raptured church and told us about it, but he did not see the rapture take place. He told us about it very briefly in John 14. Did He understand that those who are alive in Christ would be included? I doubt it.