Gradual fulfillment of Revelation?

[missmuffet]

5 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

I would like to add a lot of people think the pre trib doctrin is more speculation then biblically supported by scripture. Parts of the doctrin actually contradicts scripture.  What i have seen from this chat christians are equally divided in pre, post, mid and pan doctrin but all agree Jesus will return and we will get caught up to meet him in the air:)

One way or another we will all be with Jesus.

[Reinitin]

11 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

One way or another we will all be with Jesus.

Amen

[Zemke]

8 minutes ago, ByTheSpirit said:

For clarification:

 

I am not saying Revelation has been partially fulfilled, nor completely.

 

but historical events have occurred without refute that could be fulfillments of specific prophecies in Revelation and that is the basis of my question.

 

thanks for those that have responded thus far

It's true that events have happened that could be a fulfillment, and in part are as in a type of fulfillment such as there are and have been many anti christs that teach us about 'the' anti christ.  Prophecy is pattern, we think along the lines of prediction and fulfillment along a time line but semetic thinking is more a cyclical pattern. Events recapitulate until fulfillment and each time teach us of the ultimate future fulfillment.

Birth pangs, earth tremers, every contraction teaches something of the next and next until the baby really comes. The final pain is far greater than the contractions but you get a picture of what's coming. Same with earth quakes and when the big one hits it's like the tremers but escalates far greater in destruction and magnitude.

Revelation is the most old testament book in the new testament. It really takes having a handle on what those things meant in the old testament books in which they were written. The seals and trunpets are a pattern of the battle of Jericho. Seven coming out of a series of seven, trumpets, silence, two witnesses, a gentile woman and her household being pulled out before destruction and fire. 

666 appears a number of times in different ways in the Old Testament and is really where to start understanding this person to gain wisdom. Goliath and the image in Daniel for starters and KingSolomon has a number of places where sixes are associated when he got into money and power in a back slidden state but it shows us character or something of this person every time we see sixes.

It's hard for us in the west to think around prediction and fulfillment along a time line because it's true htere is a line of time but more so prophecy is pattern and the more we see pattern the more we understand the time line. Not the other way around.

 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Reinitin said:

wait. John was told he was being shown things that were/ past, are now/ present and to come/ future. when Jesus picked up the scroll in the temple he stoped in the middle of the scripture the rest of that verse will be fullfilled at his return there is no apointments of time through the horsemen, bowls and the trumpets that I have seen. many christians through the church age have seen the things spoke about begin to happen. there is only one return of Christ and one great and horrible day of Gods Wrath but you will have to show me where it says the horsemen, bowls and the trumpets are all gonna be in the last 3.5 years of the Son of Perdisions Reign or after the rapture of the church? why would a church that is with Christ look up for their redemption when they see these things coming to pass? 

John was being shown the future.  Christ comes in the air (does not touch his feet on the earth) and then he comes at the end when he brings back the saints in the last battle. When we see the signs mentioned in the scriptures I listed but did not write out, we know Christ coming is near. All of the seals,bowls and trumpets are wrath. The church is not appointed to wrath. None righteous have ever been left to suffer WRATH. ie Noah and his family, lot and his family, Moses and the isrealites (in the passover account in exodus). 

"The pattern and typology of the Rapture is present. The believers are warned by God that a judgment is coming and they are specifically spared the judgment. God commanded the Israelites to put the blood on their doorposts and stay behind their doors and not to come out. Just as it was with Noah and with the Apostle John a door was symbolic of being kept safe during a time of judgment. And as it will be with the Rapture, the believers are saved, suffering no harm, while the unbelievers suffer God’s wrath."

"As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man."http://beginningandend.com/believers-escape-gods-wrath-biblical-foreshadows-rapture/

I can provide you with the details of the seals,bowls, and trumpets if the OP gives me the go ahead. I dont think this thread is necessarily about all that and I dont want to derail the topic. 

 

Blessings  

Edited August 6, 2017 by Guest

[Reinitin]

10 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

John was being shown the future.  Christ comes in the air (does not touch his feet on the earth) and then he comes at the end when he brings back the saints in the last battle. When we see the signs mentioned in the scriptures I listed but did not write out, we know Christ coming is near. All of the seals,bowls and trumpets are wrath. The church is not appointed to wrath. None righteous have ever been left to suffer WRATH. ie Noah and his family, lot and his family, Moses and the isrealites (in the passover account in exodus). 

"The pattern and typology of the Rapture is present. The believers are warned by God that a judgment is coming and they are specifically spared the judgment. God commanded the Israelites to put the blood on their doorposts and stay behind their doors and not to come out. Just as it was with Noah and with the Apostle John a door was symbolic of being kept safe during a time of judgment. And as it will be with the Rapture, the believers are saved, suffering no harm, while the unbelievers suffer God’s wrath."

"As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man."http://beginningandend.com/believers-escape-gods-wrath-biblical-foreshadows-rapture/

I can provide you with the details of the seals,bowls, and trumpets if the OP gives me the go ahead. I dont think this thread is necessarily about all that and I dont want to derail the topic. 

 

Blessings  

So what is this in Rev 1:19

¹⁹ Therefore write what you have seen, what is, and what will take place after this. 

 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Reinitin

[Reinitin]

54 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

So what is this in Rev 1:19

¹⁹ Therefore write what you have seen, what is, and what will take place after this. 

 

I think showing scripture that supports some of it happening or it is all in the future is on topic.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Reinitin said:

So what is this in Rev 1:19

¹⁹ Therefore write what you have seen, what is, and what will take place after this. 

 

I think, simply put, the seven letters speak to the spreading of the gospel worldwide and that is considered "what is".

Jesus said that the gospel of the kingdom would be preached worldwide, then the end would come (Matthew 24:14).  I see this as fulfilled and coinciding with the time of the Gentiles ending.  Jesus also said that Jerusalem would be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled (Luke 21:24).  Jerusalem is no longer being trampled by Gentiles.

So if the "what is" is completed then we are into the things that will take place afterwords; the opening of the seven seals.  Personally, I see the first seal as opened.

[ByTheSpirit]

8 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I think, simply put, the seven letters speak to the spreading of the gospel worldwide and that is considered "what is".

Jesus said that the gospel of the kingdom would be preached worldwide, then the end would come (Matthew 24:14).  I see this as fulfilled and coinciding with the time of the Gentiles ending.  Jesus also said that Jerusalem would be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled (Luke 21:24).  Jerusalem is no longer being trampled by Gentiles.

So if the "what is" is completed then we are into the things that will take place afterwords; the opening of the seven seals.  Personally, I see the first seal as opened.

Interesting!  Thanks

[ByTheSpirit]

Does anyone here see the coming astrological craze of September 23 as the fulfillment of Revelation 12?

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I think, simply put, the seven letters speak to the spreading of the gospel worldwide and that is considered "what is".

Jesus said that the gospel of the kingdom would be preached worldwide, then the end would come (Matthew 24:14).  I see this as fulfilled and coinciding with the time of the Gentiles ending.  Jesus also said that Jerusalem would be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled (Luke 21:24).  Jerusalem is no longer being trampled by Gentiles.

So if the "what is" is completed then we are into the things that will take place afterwords; the opening of the seven seals.  Personally, I see the first seal as opened.

The first seal is the rider on the white horse ie antichrist.   We have not seen that happen .Yes, we would certainly know! 

The great tribulation is a time like none other. It will be HORRIBLE and the church will not be here. It is a time of WRATH poured out from our Sovereign LORD. 

 

18 minutes ago, ByTheSpirit said:

Does anyone here see the coming astrological craze of September 23 as the fulfillment of Revelation 12?

How could that be possible when the apocalypse ie great tribulation has yet to begin? Revelations equals apocalypse. There will be total destruction ! Revelations is Gods wrath upon the whole world.