Gradual fulfillment of Revelation?

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, Sojourner414 said:

The Lamb hasn't open any seals yet, as the Restrainer has not been taken out of the way and the Man of lawlessness has not been revealed (2 Thess 2:3), nor has the Man of Lawlessness (The Antichrist) entered into an agreement "with the many" (Daniel 9:27).

I do not know what reason you believe that the Tribulation has started already; as a planet, we've seen nothing yet. Jesus spoke of that period as a time so terrible that no time like it has been seen before, nor will be again (Matt. 24:21). Everything going on now, while bad, is still "business as usual"; as a whole, God has not passed judgment on this planet yet; so far, we have only reaped the consequences of what we have "sown" as a race.

As to your claim of "purification" in the Tribulation: If Christ's blood was not enough to purify us, then how could our own suffering do so? If that were the case, we would not have needed a Savior to start with. Rather, that idea comes from the minds of those who think that works are an essential part of salvation and not a result of it, and are seeking "brownie points" with the Lord for suffering. I don't know about you, but I have been literally tortured, physically and emotionally. I really don't think you know what you're wanting to get yourself into with believing you will be here for the Tribulation when that happens. But I do believe that you have some rather bizarre ideas about what will truly happen and how it will affect you and others, and all I can say is that unlike a TV show or a video game, when it gets to be more than you can stand, you cannot just "turn it off". It's not going to play out like "Left Behind or "Christ Clone Trilogy", where the "suffering" is your standard-fare disaster movie.

To be frank: I think my post hit a nerve with you, as your reply comes off much like an ad-hominem attack full of anger and spite. But I stand by what I have said, and after reviewing your post, I don't really think anything has been said in your post that I need to further refute. But I do urge you to consider the ramifications of one possibility:

What if you're wrong?

 

Something for you to think about, Reinitin.

 

-Sojo414 out.

and I do not think Thee Anti Christ has been revealed. I think that some saints that were tatooed in Hitlers consintration camps probably thought they were seeing revelations Mark if the beast fulfilled so they resisted and were killed. And the Saints that saw that evil dude (I forget his name it starts with an A) put a statue of Zues in Gods temple and sacrafice pigs on Gods alter probably thought the were seeing the abomination of desalation standing in the Holy place. I imagine when the Roman troops went through towns with a statue of ceasar and said kneel to your Lord. Saints probably thought revelation was being fulfilled so they stood and said"Jesus is Lord" and were killed for it in colisiums and were dipped in oil and burned on stakes in the streets.

I never said I think the earth has seen the first seal and the rider in the white horse. But i think many saints have died in faithfulness to the Lord and resisted many anti christs though the  generations.

The cord being stuck is people keep thinking im saying what i havent said. Which im sure Im feeling empathy for my Lord now.

 I hate that i cant figure out how to respond to several false assumptions and aqusations in one post about what i think and what i believe and what i havent studied. I would love to be able to just grab each statement and respond in an orderly fasion with one quote. Cause some if ya'll have you crystal balls tuned into the wrong station:)

[ByTheSpirit]

16 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

I know that I stated that I wouldnt debate but I just cant help myself!

For someone who stated that she is weak in end times prophecy,you sure do have some strong opinions on it!  It absolutely ludicrous to say that 4 seals have already been opened! Speaking of leaning on your own understanding

 

 It is apparent by your own words that you do not understand the magnitude of  the WRATH OF GOD  in a time like none other or that  what is happening around you  is NOT  end time JUDGEMENT since you did say 4 seals have already happened! . God doesnt JUDGE his saints in the "70th week of Daniel" .

1 Thess 5:9For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath,but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ

 

Proverbs 16:4The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.

 

2 Peter 3:7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

 

The LORD will  judge Israel  and the "earth dwellers".  The church is not mentioned at all after rev 3.The church is conspicuously absent until rev 19.  Why? Because the church age has ended!  The tribulation ie judgement is  when God deals with  the unbelieving Jews and the wicked deniers of Christ!

The martyred saints [ the ones whose robes were not white when Christ raptured his remnant. Some were of just a godly appearance and some were  deniers of Christ until they saw the LORD come in the air] are taken  ref: Rev 7.

Revelation 3:10
Because you have kept My command to endure with patience, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. { earth dwellers mentioned all throughout the tribulation}

 

 

 

 

Rev 1: 7Behold,He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him — even those who pierced Him.And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

 

Where all the people who saw Christ come for his church? Are people repenting and mourning because they have not believed  all along? Where are the JEWS that are mourning ?  

Zechariah 12:10
"I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done.

 

7. with clouds—Greek, "the clouds," namely, of heaven. "A cloud received Him out of their sight" at His ascension (Ac 1:9). His ascension corresponds to the manner of His coming again (Ac 1:11). Clouds are the symbols of wrath to sinners.

 

The worlds sinners ie earth dwellers!  I am a new creation in Christ! I am a saint!   

 

1st Seal - Rider on the white horse = antichrist

 

Tell me who the antichrist is! Since he is already known, you should be able to tell me his name! 

 

2nd Seal - Rider on the red horse = Peace taken from the earth so that men kill each other

 

Peace is not gone! The church is STILL here! 

3rd Seal - Rider on the black horse = world-wide famine represented by the fact that a small amount of food will cost a days wages.

 

Last I checked, it cost me about 4 or 5 bucks for a loaf of bread!  Even the poorest of people on minimum wage make  about 50 bucks a day.  50 does not equal  4 or 5

I havent seen on the news that the world is in a famine either! 

4th Seal - Pale green horse = Death and Hades who are given power over earth to kill a fourth of the worlds population via war, famine, disease and by the wild beasts of the earth. Based on the current population of 7 billion, a four would equal approx. 1.7 billion people at the beginning of that last seven year period.
 

 Have we had 1/4 of the earth wiped away in one fell swoop? Apprx 1.7 people died?! 

Where was I? How in the world did I miss THAT?!  I must have been napping.

 

I provided you with alot of information to consider in my very long entailed post! It appears that  you did not consider it at all.  Thats very disappointing . Somehow with your "weakest subject", you have more knowledge than those who have been studying end times prophecy for years!!  I wonder  how you are able to question anything about end times prophecy with wisdom from the scriptures since you  really havent studied. Interesting.

 

"Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

 

I read where  you said to someone else on this thread that we need to bring scripture to back up our opinions. It is advisable for us to do as we say so that we are not considered a hypocrite. Also, lets pray that we are rightly dividing the precious prophecy that the LORD has given us and we post scripture that is applicable to the reality.

 

Blessings  

 

You yourself said the position you presented was not your own so are your words now your own or someone else's?

 

listen, the church does not equate to PEACE, as you state.  Peace comes from the Holy Spirit not the church.

 

if the Tribulation is God's Wrath on the UNGODLY as you state, then why are you worried about saints being on earth during that time?  Are saints ungodly?  Or will God indiscriminately punish all people together?

[Reinitin]

On 8/7/2017 at 6:25 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

There is a difference between the pre-tribulation immortals and the 144000

The pre-tribulation immortals will be caught up first and then the 144000 of Israel will appear to spread the gospel of the Lord's coming kingdom upon the earth

where is that in scripture?

[Reinitin]

On 8/6/2017 at 11:49 AM, ByTheSpirit said:

Does anyone here see the coming astrological craze of September 23 as the fulfillment of Revelation 12?

are you taking about jupitur in vergo for 42 weeks?

[ByTheSpirit]

7 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

are you taking about jupitur in vergo for 42 weeks?

Yeah, there is a big craze about it

[other one]

On 8/6/2017 at 11:49 AM, ByTheSpirit said:

Does anyone here see the coming astrological craze of September 23 as the fulfillment of Revelation 12?

I find it really interesting and quite possible considering it's the first time it's been there since Adam and Eve......    However I really thought Jesus would be back in 1988 too......   so I won't be holding my breath over it......   but I will be ready spiritually if the dark one is sent here permanently. 

[Reinitin]

On 8/7/2017 at 6:28 PM, Blueyedjewel said:

HUH?

You are the one who hasnt studied prophecy but yet your convinced you know without applying yourself?

 Dont tell me what is out of context when you obviously know NOTHING about what is to come!!

There is nothing out of context. You perceive it as such because you are ignorant to end time truths. 

Go study and make yourself approved so that YOU are not ashamed. 

 

3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it,because the time is near.

 

This is my last reply to you!  

You come back with nothing but YOUR OWN WORDS and ZERO SCRIPTURE but yet it is YOU THAT KNOWS BEST  in "your weakest subject"! 

 

 

I said..."escatology is my weakest subject i dont study it indepth much."  

Escatology: the part of theology concerned with death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind. 

I have studied indepth i just dont study the same stuff over and over I probably dont know every verse on  the tooics but I know where my soul was/ is now/ will be, I know my Lord has over come Death and given me the same spirit that rose him from the grave, I know God is righteous when he judges. I know mankind is lost with out Christ. I havent studied escotology indepth "much" doesn't mean when i studied it I didn't rihhtly divide the word and look at in the fullness of all the scripured.  I have never picked so deep in to the things the bible says that I see and think It says stuff it doesn't say. I never said "I have not studied prophecy indepth". I Study to know my Father almost every day since 1975. When you quote people you should check the accuracy of your statements. When you dont watch your self its called gossip or dishonesty or false witness. None of them are good things to practice.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Reinitin

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, ByTheSpirit said:

Yeah, there is a big craze about it

I think its cool and the timing with the feast of trumpets is wonderful to me. I have seen diiferent speculation on its meaning. I am more like WOW GOD you planned this when you created the heavens, all creation is tesifying that you are God.

[ByTheSpirit]

53 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

I think its cool and the timing with the feast of trumpets is wonderful to me. I have seen diiferent speculation on its meaning. I am more like WOW GOD you planned this when you created the heavens, all creation is tesifying that you are God.

It is very cool I agree

[Pudgenik]

I agree that there is a gradual fulfilment of Revelations. But certainly not in the manner many of you think.

Makes me laugh, hearing all these thoughts of pre tribe rapture and post tribe rapture. All this nonsense of where we are in God's time. 

Jesus himself said not to worry about it. Live each day to its fullest. Can worrying add another day to your lives. I see a whole section nearly devoted to studying the future. Instead of talking healthy discussions on scripture study. Foolishness, that is what this all has become, foolishness.