2 Thessalonians 2:6-7

[Diaste]

On 10/26/2017 at 6:49 PM, Davida said:

Don't put words in my mouth. You are claiming now that I said something that I didn't. 

Just because you don't understand the Pre-Trib from Scripture  doesn't mean it is a lie.

Satan hates it when Christians remind each other of our blessed hope of Jesus appearing.   

It's not that I don't understand Pretrib, it's that the only evidence of Pretrib manifests through smoke and mirrors; no explicit testimony from any scripture of a gathering of 100's of millions before Jesus returns exists. But there is explicit testimony of a gathering of people from all over the earth, from every nation, of every people group, at the same time Jesus appears.

When I was immersing myself in the teachings of Hal Lindsey in the mid to late 70's I looked in the scriptures to read for myself the evidence cited by Lindsey, and others. I did a lot of searching over the next 15 years and was always left unsettled by the lack of explicit scripture proving Lindsey's contentions: thief in the night, church, or Holy Spirit is the withholder (OP topic), great tribulation is the entire week, etc. Then I heard a new idea. When I searched the scriptures for that one I found a great deal of evidence and harmony reigned. 

It's true that Jesus appearing is the blessed hope of all believers. It's also true that His appearing would be profound, necessary, and stunning no matter when He returned, the particular time would not lessen His stunning revealing. But I don't see this occurring beforehand. God's people, Israel, will have to call on Him before Jesus returns. They are not going to do that now when all they can think of is rebuilding the Temple and starting the OT liturgy reviving Mosaic law. 

 

On 10/22/2017 at 11:52 AM, Davida said:

Your statement above is a false accusation, plus you are trying to change the definition of the word - "LIE".  The DICTIONARY has the definition of what a Lie is.

A lie is something that is done knowingly  for the PURPOSE to deceive. 

People have different OPINIONS on when the Tribulation will occur, they are not knowingly trying to deceive others.

If a person starts misapplying and changing the dictionary definitions of common English words that doesn't present well for their Bible interpretations imo. 

Right here you are saying I call people liars. You do see that, don't you? You said, "People have different OPINIONS on when the Tribulation will occur, they are not knowingly trying to deceive others." I stated that the idea of Pretrib is a falsehood, an untruth, I never said any particular individual was, or is, a liar. And again, I do not care how Webster defines any particular word. The truth in scripture is paramount when it comes to understanding scripture.

[Diaste]

On 10/22/2017 at 12:28 PM, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

Please read it all in context. 

2  Thessalonians 2 

 

1Now we implore you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him, 2for you not quickly to be shaken in mind, nor to be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as if by us, as that day of the Lord is present. 3No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed—the son of destruction, 4the one opposing and exalting himself above every so-called god or object of worship—so as for him to sit down in the temple of God, setting forth that he himself is God.5Do you not remember that, being yet with you, I was saying these things to you? 6And now you know that which is restraining for his being revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is working already; there is only the one at present restraining it, until he might be gone out of themidst. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will consume with the breath of His mouth and will annul by the appearing of His coming, 9whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in every power, and in signs, and in wonders of falsehood, 10and in every deception of wickedness unto those perishing, in return for which they did not receive the love of the truth in order for them to be saved. 11And because of this, God will send to them a working of delusion, for them to believe what is false, 12in order that all those not having believed the truth but having delighted in unrighteousness should be judged.

verse 3: apostasy of the Church and the man of lawlessness is the anti-Christ

verse 6: the restrainer is the Holy Spirit filled Church on Earth. 

verse 11: the delusion will be Satan's end times alien deception.

 

While I get that you fully believe your conclusions:

"verse 3: apostasy of the Church and the man of lawlessness is the anti-Christ

verse 6: the restrainer is the Holy Spirit filled Church on Earth. 

verse 11: the delusion will be Satan's end times alien deception."

you don't present a single premise nor any reasoning leading to the above conclusions. If 2 Thess 2:1-7 is taken in context then the Holy Ghost is not the restrainer. To wit:

The topic of the passage is the day of the Lord and whether or not the day is occurring for the Thessalonians. "IT", meaning the Day of the Lord, "is not" until the defection and the revealing of the man of sin (when the beast sits in the Temple and declares himself god). Now since the topic is the Day of the Lord and when it occurs, and what must occur before the Day of the Lord, we are constrained to stay in this context. In verse 6 Paul says, "now you know that which is restraining" immediately after explaining the order of events i.e., apostasy and the revealing of the beast and only then the Day of the Lord. Paul did not say, "now you know who is restraining", he said, "that which...". This is the first clue that it isn't a person but events that are restraining. Staying in context with the topic of the the Day of the Lord and if it is indeed occurring, and Paul telling the Thessalonians the Day of the Lord can only occur after the apostasy and the revealing of the beast, "that which is restraining" are the two events in verse 3. Staying in context, since the topic is the timing of the Day of the Lord ,and Paul says that day won't come until the defection and revealing of the beast, what is being withheld is the Day of the Lord. Verse 6 can be read as, "Now you know the apostasy and the A of D is in effect witholding the appearance of Jesus and the Day of the Lord." 

Verse 7 is another matter and does not reflect the Greek. From a literal perspective verse 7 should read as  follows, "The mystery of iniquity is at work already doing it's work: just wait for now until the happening comes into being from out of and in the middle."  This is a far cry from what we see in the various translations though the one you posted above is quite close if we understand verse 7 in the same vein as verses 1-6. It's not a 'he' in verse 7 as a pronoun does not appear in the Greek in 2 Thess 2:7, it's events. This makes perfect sense as Paul is relating particular events to other events in time and space. 

 

 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

While I get that you fully believe your conclusions:

"verse 3: apostasy of the Church and the man of lawlessness is the anti-Christ

verse 6: the restrainer is the Holy Spirit filled Church on Earth. 

verse 11: the delusion will be Satan's end times alien deception."

you don't present a single premise nor any reasoning leading to the above conclusions. If 2 Thess 2:1-7 is taken in context then the Holy Ghost is not the restrainer. To wit:

The topic of the passage is the day of the Lord and whether or not the day is occurring for the Thessalonians. "IT", meaning the Day of the Lord, "is not" until the defection and the revealing of the man of sin (when the beast sits in the Temple and declares himself god). Now since the topic is the Day of the Lord and when it occurs, and what must occur before the Day of the Lord, we are constrained to stay in this context. In verse 6 Paul says, "now you know that which is restraining" immediately after explaining the order of events i.e., apostasy and the revealing of the beast and only then the Day of the Lord. Paul did not say, "now you know who is restraining", he said, "that which...". This is the first clue that it isn't a person but events that are restraining. Staying in context with the topic of the the Day of the Lord and if it is indeed occurring, and Paul telling the Thessalonians the Day of the Lord can only occur after the apostasy and the revealing of the beast, "that which is restraining" are the two events in verse 3. Staying in context, since the topic is the timing of the Day of the Lord ,and Paul says that day won't come until the defection and revealing of the beast, what is being withheld is the Day of the Lord. Verse 6 can be read as, "Now you know the apostasy and the A of D is in effect witholding the appearance of Jesus and the Day of the Lord." 

Verse 7 is another matter and does not reflect the Greek. From a literal perspective verse 7 should read as  follows, "The mystery of iniquity is at work already doing it's work: just wait for now until the happening comes into being from out of and in the middle."  This is a far cry from what we see in the various translations though the one you posted above is quite close if we understand verse 7 in the same vein as verses 1-6. It's not a 'he' in verse 7 as a pronoun does not appear in the Greek in 2 Thess 2:7, it's events. This makes perfect sense as Paul is relating particular events to other events in time and space. 

 

 

Apologies I meant to say:  

verse 6: the restrainer is the Faithful Church on Earth. Rather than the Spirit filled Church (there is a difference).

I believe the faithful church will loose it's faith when they see Jesus return, because he will say the Christian history of him is wrong but the Muslim history of him is true. This fake Jesus, who will really be Satan, will also claim to be an extraterrestrial. He will then select the prophesied Muslim Mahdi, who will really be the AC. Do you know about Quranic prophesy and what it says about Jesus?   

I am guessing you are using the original Greek in your study of Thessalonians here: 

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/2th2.pdf

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

Apologies I meant to say:  

verse 6: the restrainer is the Faithful Church on Earth. Rather than the Spirit filled Church (there is a difference).

I believe the faithful church will loose it's faith when they see Jesus return, because he will say the Christian history of him is wrong but the Muslim history of him is true. This fake Jesus, who will really be Satan, will also claim to be an extraterrestrial. He will then select the prophesied Muslim Mahdi, who will really be the AC. Do you know about Quranic prophesy and what it says about Jesus?   

I am guessing you are using the original Greek in your study of Thessalonians here: 

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/2th2.pdf

Ok. How did you get from this; "⁶ And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time." to this; "the restrainer is the Faithful Church on Earth."? I mean, what evidence got you to conclude  "faithful church" from verse 6?

Yes. The beast is coming from the area of Mesopotamia. A great many things will be said about him no doubt. I've read a few things about Islamic prophecies of the end of the age but give them no credence. The Quran is the product of the diseased mind of a murderous warlord where scripture is inspired by the One True God. 

Satan is going to empower the beast after raising him from the dead. There will be no alien deception as Satan wants the worship of mankind; he's not going to hide. It should go something like this:

Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi has been described by his now deceased head cleric as, "the 8th of 12". This means Baghdadi is the 8th and of the 7. Now is this the fulfillment of prophecy? It's as close as I have seen to  "The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven" Rev 17:11. There are other fulfillments by ISIS of prophecy in Daniel leading to conclude with few reservations that ISIS is the Iron Kingdom, the Fourth Beast, and Baghdadi is the leader or the beast/AC. The world is after this guy with great zeal. They are going to arrest him at some point. He will be tried in some Mideast country, likely Saudi Arabia, convicted and sentenced to death. They behead him and days later he's resurrected. The whole world watched the trial through social media and streaming video on their personal communication devices. The execution is carried out and hits Youtube in moments and the whole world again can witness the the event.

Collectively the earth breathes a sigh of relief when Baghdadi is caught, tried and executed. He troubled every peaceful gathering of citizens all over the world through bestial behavior of his followers. He took away their peace and committed horrific acts of atrocity while waging a rebellious and powerful war. Satan will then raise him back up by the permission of the Most High God, which the whole world will see, and the whole world will wonder! They will then worship the beast and the dragon (Rev 13). This immense notoriety, and the power of Satan, will give the beast authority to make the 7 year agreement to rebuild the Temple and begin the liturgy. Three and a half years later the beast will be revealed for who he truly is.

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Davida said:

I  have not called anyone a liar but YOU have continuously. You continue to call the belief in the Pre-Trib a LIE.

 and I would THANK YOU to STOP Twisting others words and STOP bearing FALSE Witness!

I have never called the 'belief' in pretrib a lie. I'm sure the belief in pretrib is sincere and honest. I condemn the whole premise of pretrib as false, not those who believe in it. They are just following the wolves in sheep's clothing who promote the lie as truth.

Who did I call a liar? You have a name? Time? Place? Prove it or stop slinging mud. My witness is not false. What I say can be proven with scriptural fact. Everything I say can be so proven unless I say it's my personal opinion.

I think your conscience is pricking your spirit.

[simplejeff]

He doesn't have to convince anyone - God's Word is sufficient .

It is not as if ONLY the pre-trib (particular) teachings and practices are false,

but many practices and teachings ASSOCIATED WITH the false pre-trib beliefs are wrong also,

accoding to Scripture , simply. 

It is a deep mess,  miry clay,  a whole system that is gone astray and bringing people down with it.

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Ok. How did you get from this; "⁶ And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time." to this; "the restrainer is the Faithful Church on Earth."? I mean, what evidence got you to conclude  "faithful church" from verse 6?

Yes. The beast is coming from the area of Mesopotamia. A great many things will be said about him no doubt. I've read a few things about Islamic prophecies of the end of the age but give them no credence.

Satan is going to empower the beast after raising him from the dead. There will be no alien deception as Satan wants the worship of mankind; he's not going to hide. It should go something like this:

Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi has been described by his now deceased head cleric as, "the 8th of 12". This means Baghdadi is the 8th and of the 7. Now is this the fulfillment of prophecy? It's as close as I have seen to  "The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven" Rev 17:11. There are other fulfillments by ISIS of prophecy in Daniel leading to conclude with few reservations that ISIS is the Iron Kingdom, the Fourth Beast, and Baghdadi is the leader or the beast/AC. The world is after this guy with great zeal. They are going to arrest him at some point. He will be tried in some Mideast country, likely Saudi Arabia, convicted and sentenced to death. They behead him and days later he's resurrected. The whole world watched the trial through social media and streaming video on their personal communication devices. The execution is carried out and hits Youtube in moments and the whole world again can witness the the event.

Collectively the earth breathes a sigh of relief when Baghdadi is caught, tried and executed. He troubled every peaceful gathering of citizens all over the world through bestial behavior of his followers. He took away their peace and committed horrific acts of atrocity while waging a rebellious and powerful war. Satan will then raise him back up by the permission of the Most High God, which the whole world will see, and the whole world will wonder! They will then worship the beast and the dragon (Rev 13). This immense notoriety, and the power of Satan, will give the beast authority to make the 7 year agreement to rebuild the Temple and begin the liturgy. Three and a half years later the beast will be revealed for who he truly is.

I'm glad you see the a Muslim will be the Anti-Christ, on that we can agree, I also agree when you said: 'The Quran is the product of the diseased mind of a murderous warlord wherescripture is inspired by the One True God.' However, according to Mohammad it was the angel Gabriel who dictated the Quran to him but you and I both know that was not Gabriel, in fact it was Satan himself I believe, because the Quranic prophesy's are key to the strong delusion that Paul said is coming, and the lie that will be believed:   

2 Thes 2:1

For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

The most powerful force in Satan's armoury is belief and Satan has made a billion+ people believe that the Mahdi is coming and that Jesus will return to Earth by descending to Damascus to select the Mahdi. I also agree with what you said here; 'Satan wants the worship of mankind' Well Satan will have at least a billion+ worshippers straight away and more will believe when they see him performing wondrous signs like Jesus, in fact many faithful Christians will convert or at least fall away. This is the apostasy. And to all the agnostics and atheists this fake Jesus will be an ancient alien god, returning to one of his many planets to see how his 'offspring' are doing. That will collect even more worshippers.    

The world has been gradually programmed to accept aliens coming to earth to take over and that is what is going to happen at the begining of the 7 year tribulation that is just around the corner.  

Scientific Studies Confirm: “Crop Circles Are Made by Balls of Light”. Dr Eltjo Hasselhoff
http://humansarefree.com/2011/08/scientific-studies-confirm-crop-circles.html

 

[WilliamL]

On 10/26/2017 at 4:48 PM, Diaste said:

On 10/26/2017 at 1:42 PM, WilliamL said:

But you never really respond to  how the passage out of Daniel that I quoted fits in to your understanding of 2 Thes. 2.

Daniel 12:1 -- there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time -- is clearly what Jesus referred to in Matt. 24:21 --

Matt 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)... 21 then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

Because of this equivalence between the two verses, the preceding verse  of Dan. 11:40 becomes highly significant. People who choose to ignore that significance miss out on what Daniel reveals about key events to occur in Jerusalem just prior to the resurrection of the dead [Dan. 12:2]. And since 2 Thes. 2 is also speaking about precisely this same period... well, maybe some people here will pay attention.

I agree with the reference between Dan 12:1, which seems to be an extension of Dan 11, and Matt 24:21. Clearly the same idea. But what's the conclusion? To what are we to pay attention?

Let's put the closely related prophecies together:

Matt 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place... 21 then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been... 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days...the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 ...and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

Dan. 11:40 “At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind... [41-43 enter and occupy the Holy Land; subdue Egypt, Libya, and Cush (prob. = Sudan); but not subdue or occupy Edom/Moab/Edom (= the whole or parts of the current nations of Jordan and Saudi Arabia) 44 But news from the east [towards Iraq and Iran] and the north [towards Russia and/or Turkey] shall trouble him... 45 And he shall plant the tents of his pavilion between the seas at the glorious holy mountain; but he shall come to his end, and no one will help him. 12:1 “At that time Michael shall stand up, ...And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was... 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake..."

2 Thes 2:1 ...concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him... 3 that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called a god or that is worshiped, so that he sits as a god in the naos/holy place/sanctuary of God, showing himself that he is a god. ... 8...the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Beginning at Daniel 11:40, we see IN THE END TIMES a king/potentate to the south of the Holy Land, which south is currently all Islamic, attacking somehow a ruler of the North, having the descendancy of the Graeco-Roman culture. The latter ruler invades from north to south, occupying/entering (seemingly peacefully) Israel, and then forcefully invades Islamic Egypt, Libya, and southwards; but neither Jordan nor Saudi Arabia -- currently allies of America and Europe -- are troubled at all. This ruler ends up setting up his quarters on the Temple Mount; then he comes to his end around the time of the Great Tribulation and subsequent resurrection of the dead.

Now, if people can't see the fit between this passage, and what Jesus prophesied about the same period in the End Times, and what Paul prophesied about the Son of Perdition likewise setting himself up in the Holy Place on the Temple Mount, but being brought to his end at the Coming of the Lord ... then those people are else either really ignorant of the Scriptures, or else they refuse to see something that runs contrary to their beliefs about the sequence of events of the End Times.

Everything described in the above passages describes a post-trib, but pre-wrath, Second Coming:

The Abomination of Desolation is accomplished by the Son of Perdition/King of the North; followed by the Great Tribulation; followed by the Resurrection of the Dead at the Second Coming, concurrent with the demise of the Son of Perdition.

At that point of the Second Coming, nothing at all concerning the post-Rev. 7 events that take place during the Wrath of God are even hinted at, with the exception of the hint of the future invasion from out of the east.

[Diaste]

On 10/29/2017 at 10:45 AM, Davida said:

Diaste, you repeatedly & dramatically call the Pre trib a LIE and have even stated that it is satanic.  That is way over the top bearing false witness against other believers who don't agree with your view or your handling of scripture.   Just because you disagree with the Pre-Trib view doesn't mean it is a LIE. You are also not convincing anyone by this mislabeling & deceptive attempts to change the meaning of the word "Lie" to suit your narrative.  For example, I don't agree with the other views of the timing of rapture but I would not call them "lies" as a lie is done on purpose.  
You have been confronted by a couple of other people in this thread on this.

 

I fully admit that I label false concepts, falsehoods and untruths as a lie. It's the opposite of truth, ergo, a lie.  Please prove that I'm bearing false witness based on disagreement or interpretation. How could you possibly know my motivation for speaking out is based on simple disagreement?  Concerning exegesis have you explored the process through which these conclusions are drawn? Are you in my head? You have access to my heart? Of course you never asked about my motivations.

As I have said before it's not about convincing, that's the work of the Spirit. 

A lie IS a purposeful act, I agree. But it's also a thing. From Merriam Webster here: 

1a :an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker or writer to be untrue with intent to deceive 

• He told a lie to avoid punishment.

b :an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker or writer 

• the lies we tell ourselves to feel better
• historical records containing numerous lies

2:something that misleads or deceives 

• His show of remorse was a lie. Notice 1b and 2. This follows the bible definition of a lie being an untruth.  Methinks you just don't like defining a thing in absolute terms. Sorta a rude wake up call. I understand.

And because I have been confronted I should roll over? Be like...what? Follow along? Don't make waves? Play nice with the other kids?

 

 

 

[Diaste]

On 11/1/2017 at 12:58 PM, WilliamL said:

Let's put the closely related prophecies together:

Matt 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place... 21 then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been... 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days...the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 ...and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

Dan. 11:40 “At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind... [41-43 enter and occupy the Holy Land; subdue Egypt, Libya, and Cush (prob. = Sudan); but not subdue or occupy Edom/Moab/Edom (= the whole or parts of the current nations of Jordan and Saudi Arabia) 44 But news from the east [towards Iraq and Iran] and the north [towards Russia and/or Turkey] shall trouble him... 45 And he shall plant the tents of his pavilion between the seas at the glorious holy mountain; but he shall come to his end, and no one will help him. 12:1 “At that time Michael shall stand up, ...And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was... 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake..."

2 Thes 2:1 ...concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him... 3 that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called a god or that is worshiped, so that he sits as a god in the naos/holy place/sanctuary of God, showing himself that he is a god. ... 8...the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

Beginning at Daniel 11:40, we see IN THE END TIMES a king/potentate to the south of the Holy Land, which south is currently all Islamic, attacking somehow a ruler of the North, having the descendancy of the Graeco-Roman culture. The latter ruler invades from north to south, occupying/entering (seemingly peacefully) Israel, and then forcefully invades Islamic Egypt, Libya, and southwards; but neither Jordan nor Saudi Arabia -- currently allies of America and Europe -- are troubled at all. This ruler ends up setting up his quarters on the Temple Mount; then he comes to his end around the time of the Great Tribulation and subsequent resurrection of the dead.

Now, if people can't see the fit between this passage, and what Jesus prophesied about the same period in the End Times, and what Paul prophesied about the Son of Perdition likewise setting himself up in the Holy Place on the Temple Mount, but being brought to his end at the Coming of the Lord ... then those people are else either really ignorant of the Scriptures, or else they refuse to see something that runs contrary to their beliefs about the sequence of events of the End Times.

Everything described in the above passages describes a post-trib, but pre-wrath, Second Coming:

The Abomination of Desolation is accomplished by the Son of Perdition/King of the North; followed by the Great Tribulation; followed by the Resurrection of the Dead at the Second Coming, concurrent with the demise of the Son of Perdition.

At that point of the Second Coming, nothing at all concerning the post-Rev. 7 events that take place during the Wrath of God are even hinted at, with the exception of the hint of the future invasion from out of the east.

I happily agree with this assessment "Everything described in the above passages describes a post-trib, but pre-wrath, Second Coming:"!

One point I would make that I fully realized over the last couple years is this; The KOTN is not the beast. The KOTN and the KOTS fight against the beast. A beast which rises in the region to the south of the KOTN and to the north of the KOTS, to wit; Dan 11:40;

And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, 

The only way this makes sense is if there is a third actor in the region. The context of the previous 4 verses is the willful king and his behavior and epistemology. Verse 40 continues with the same 'him', the beast, here, "And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at HIM". This 'him' is the beast and he gets attacked by the rulers of the north and south at the same time. This fits with current conditions in the Mideast. ISIS is in Mesopotamia. The respective kings of the north and south are the ancient realms of Ptolemy and Antigonus, Egypt and Asia Minor respectively. In 2017 both Egypt and Turkey are enemies of ISIS. ISIS is the seed from which the beast will appear in the region of Mesopotamia and the two kings will fight against him some time in the future.