Pelagianism

[Robert William]

26 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

John 3:16 - King James Version (KJV)

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

The word Whosoever implies an undetermined number, and if you think it through, free will.  There are many biblical passages like this.

John 3:16 is referring to the world of believers, that is ONLY the predestined elect.

Eph 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

[Robert William]

34 minutes ago, Yowm said:

It’s very easy to write in Greek, “For God so loved the world of believers...” but the Holy Spirit did not move the Apostle John to do so, and for a very good reason.

Eph 1:4-5 is speaking of the predestinated purpose of those who believe in His Son.

They were chosen before the earth was fully created.

Rom 9:11  (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12  It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13  As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14  What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15  For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17  For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22  What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 

[Robert William]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

The context of Romans 9-11 is the choosing of a nation and God’s right to do so. Whether it is Jews and Gentiles or the descendants of Jacob vs Esau. We see though when it comes to salvation God has concluded all under sin that He may have mercy on whosoever believes on the Son.

You keep preaching free will choosing without a miraculous miracle first taking place.  Notice scripture says it's not by the "will of man"

Rom 9:15  For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

[Robert William]

4 minutes ago, Yowm said:

That’s right no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws by His Spirit; we can’t by our own conniving or logic come to Him.

Again concerning Romans nine, it is speaking of God’s purposes not individual salvation. That purpose He has clearly stated...He is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance.

You have used 2 Peter 3:9 to defend your free will idol, but you have grievously misinterpreted it, look at the beginning of the chapter to see who is the subject, it's the BELOVED Brethren, NOT all humans.

[Robert William]

9 minutes ago, Yowm said:

1 Timothy 2:4 KJVS
[4] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved,.... The salvation which God wills that all men should enjoy, is not a mere possibility of salvation, or a mere putting them into a salvable state; or an offer of salvation to them; or a proposal of sufficient means of it to all in his word; but a real, certain, and actual salvation, which he has determined they shall have; and is sure from his own appointment, from the provision of Christ as a Saviour for them, from the covenant of grace, in which everything is secured necessary for it, and from the mission of Christ to effect it, and from its being effected by him: wherefore the will of God, that all men should be saved, is not a conditional will, or what depends on the will of man, or on anything to be performed by him, for then none might be saved; and if any should, it would be of him that willeth, contrary to the express words of Scripture; but it is an absolute and unconditional will respecting their salvation, and which infallibly secures it: nor is it such a will as is distinguishable into antecedent and consequent; with the former of which it is said, God wills the salvation of all men, as they are his creatures, and the work of his hands; and with the latter he wills, or not wills it, according to their future conduct and behaviour; but the will of God concerning man's salvation is entirely one, invariable, unalterable, and unchangeable: nor is it merely his will of approbation or complacency, which expresses only what would be grateful and well pleasing, should it be, and which is not always fulfilled; but it is his ordaining, purposing, and determining will, which is never resisted, so as to be frustrated, but is always accomplished: the will of God, the sovereign and unfrustrable will of God, has the governing sway and influence in the salvation of men; it rises from it, and is according to it; and all who are saved God wills they should be saved; nor are any saved, but whom he wills they should be saved: hence by all men, whom God would have saved, cannot be meant every individual of mankind, since it is not his will that all men, in this large sense, should be saved, unless there are two contrary wills in God; for there are some who were before ordained by him unto condemnation, and are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction; and it is his will concerning some, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned; nor is it fact that all are saved, as they would be, if it was his will they should; for who hath resisted his will? but there is a world of ungodly men that will be condemned, and who will go into everlasting punishment: rather therefore all sorts of men, agreeably to the use of the phrase in 1Ti_2:1 are here intended, kings and peasants, rich and poor, bond and free, male and female, young and old, greater and lesser sinners; and therefore all are to be prayed for, even all sorts of men, because God will have all men, or all sorts of men, saved; and particularly the Gentiles may be designed, who are sometimes called the world, the whole world, and every creature; whom God would have saved, as well as the Jews, and therefore Heathens, and Heathen magistrates, were to be prayed for as well as Jewish ones. Moreover, the same persons God would have saved, he would have also

 

[Robert William]

12 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

If you are going to do a "cut and paste" of a commentary (in this case: Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible), please at least put a link to the section you are quoting:

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/gill/1_timothy/2.htm

(Section "1 Timothy 2:4", 9th paragraph on page)

Otherwise, you are giving the appearance of this being your own work, and no one can tell unless they go digging for it; it looks academically dishonest.

It was taken from my E-Sword. http://www.e-sword.net/

[OneLight]

1 Timothy 2:4

Who ^G3739 will have ^G2309 all ^G3956 men ^G444 to be saved, ^G4982 and ^G2532 to come ^G2064 unto ^G1519 the knowledge ^G1922 of the truth. ^G225

When you look  up what G2309 means, even at it's simplest online meaning, you will find:

1. to will, have in mind, intend

   1. to be resolved or determined, to purpose

   2. to desire, to wish

   3. to love

      1. to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

   4. to take delight in, have pleasure

Today, we look at "will have" a strictly definite in meaning.  That is not the case hundreds of years ago.

[Robert William]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

1 Timothy 2:4

Who ^G3739 will have ^G2309 all ^G3956 men ^G444 to be saved, ^G4982 and ^G2532 to come ^G2064 unto ^G1519 the knowledge ^G1922 of the truth. ^G225

When you look  up what G2309 means, even at it's simplest online meaning, you will find:

1. to will, have in mind, intend

   1. to be resolved or determined, to purpose

   2. to desire, to wish

   3. to love

      1. to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

   4. to take delight in, have pleasure

Today, we look at "will have" a strictly definite in meaning.  That is not the case hundreds of years ago.

How do you resolve all that with...

Joh_3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Robert William said:

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

1 Timothy 2:4

Who ^G3739 will have ^G2309 all ^G3956 men ^G444 to be saved, ^G4982 and ^G2532 to come ^G2064 unto ^G1519 the knowledge ^G1922 of the truth. ^G225

When you look  up what G2309 means, even at it's simplest online meaning, you will find:

1. to will, have in mind, intend

   1. to be resolved or determined, to purpose

   2. to desire, to wish

   3. to love

      1. to like to do a thing, be fond of doing

   4. to take delight in, have pleasure

Today, we look at "will have" a strictly definite in meaning.  That is not the case hundreds of years ago.

How do you resolve all that with...

Joh_3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

They fit perfectly.  If a person chooses not to believe in Christ, they are lost.  Yet, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."  It has always been Gods desire that all will come to Him, but God will not force anyone to accept Him.

[Robert William]

13 minutes ago, OneLight said:

They fit perfectly.  If a person chooses not to believe in Christ, they are lost.  Yet, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."  It has always been Gods desire that all will come to Him, but God will not force anyone to accept Him.

You reject scripture to protect your free will idol!

Rom 9:16  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17  For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22  What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,