Pelagianism

[Robert William]

1 minute ago, Wayne222 said:

God would have all men to repent and be saved. Some love darkness and will not. God wants them. But he will not force them.

That's just showing God's Holiness and nature, the natural man will NEVER embrace the gospel because he hates the things of God.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[Willa]

21 minutes ago, Robert William said:

Willa, you believe in unlimited Atonement, sorry but scripture does NOT teach universal salvation, it teaches that the majority of mankind will be thrown into the eternal lake of fire.

1Ti 4:10  for to this we also labor and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Savior of all men, especially of believers. 

I hotly deny that all men are saved, but only that it is God's will that all men be saved and His death and resurrection makes atonement avail able to all who do not resist His grace.  I do not believe that Jesus died only for Christians, which is what I understand limited atonement to mean.  Jesus died for sinners.  

I thought I made it clear that I am not a good Calvinist.   Some Scripture contradicts Calvinism and we can't negate those because they disagree with our doctrine.  All Scripture must be true and not explained away by human logic. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Willa said:

Also don't believe that God chose to send some to hell--I believe that is their choice by resisting God's grace.

 

God is glorified in whatever he chooses to do. We see through the glass dimly and we sometimes question Gods Sovereinty. Thats why the word of God has to be the measure.

Consider Jacob and Esau. " Jacob I have loved and Esau(also called Edom) I have hated"

God rejected all of Esau's descendants. Esauas descendants brought Gods wrath and curse upon themselves and God ordained and permitted it.

Consider the fact that God chose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael.

God could have said Isaac I love and Ishmeal I hate.

God chooses whom he chooses to be saved.

Although we dont necessarily understand it; we must come away with the understanding that God is glorified through all his decisions. which includes wrath. We are not in any position  to question it.

Look at romans 9:

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Christian Apologist the late Dave Hunt debated Calvinist Apologist Dr. James White regarding OSAS.  James White is generally believed to have won the debate.  What does that prove? 

It proves that reformed theology is the biblical theology.

Dave Hunt accredits  errently many characteristics to the reformed view thus rendering himself one who cannot debate or even write a book that is based on facts!!

[Robert William]

16 minutes ago, Willa said:

1Ti 4:10  for to this we also labor and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Savior of all men, especially of believers. 

I hotly deny that all men are saved, but only that it is God's will that all men be saved and His death and resurrection makes atonement avail able to all who do not resist His grace.  I do not believe that Jesus died only for Christians, which is what I understand limited atonement to mean.  Jesus died for sinners.  

I thought I made it clear that I am not a good Calvinist.   Some Scripture contradicts Calvinism and we can't negate those because they disagree with our doctrine.  All Scripture must be true and not explained away by human logic. 

Willa, that's illogical, nobody who's sins have been Atoned for can end up in Hell. Please make up your mind, either Jesus did Atone for the sins of all humans or He didn't.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Robert William

[Willa]

I believe Scripture, not your logic.  People must resist His grace and the gift of faith to go to hell.  

I will not respond anymore to this Thread.  My beliefs are founded completely on God's Word.  Yours are based on man's logic.  We agree to disagree.

Blessings,

Willa

[Robert William]

3 minutes ago, Willa said:

I believe Scripture, not your logic.  People must resist His grace and the gift of faith to go to hell.  

I will not respond anymore to this Thread.  My beliefs are founded completely on God's Word.  Yours are based on man's logic.  We agree to disagree.

Blessings,

Willa

Willa, you told me that Jesus Atoned for the sins of ALL humans, that logically says ALL humans will be saved since their sins have been Atoned for. In the eyes of God that makes them sinless, they can not end up in Hell.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Robert William

[Wayne222]

33 minutes ago, Robert William said:

That's just showing God's Holiness and nature, the natural man will NEVER embrace the gospel because he hates the things of God.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

           God does not contradict himself. If he wants everyone saved and he does not give them the means to turn to him then he is going against his own will.

[Robert William]

2 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

           God does not contradict himself. If he wants everyone saved and he does not give them the means to turn to him then he is going against his own will.

I think we can both agree that God is not going to save all humans.

Wayne, what doe mean when you say"the means"?

Edited September 20, 2017 by Robert William

[Wayne222]

2 minutes ago, Robert William said:

Willa, you told me that Jesus Atoned for the sins of ALL humans, that logically says ALL humans will be saved since their sins have been Atoned for.

Jesus did die for for all sinners. But you have to place faith in it to benefit.  When Moses had the pole with the shape of a snake made so everyone bitten could look upon it and not die. But they had to look at it. It was made for all of the bitten Israelites.  But if any did not look they would have died.