Roman Catholic Church Unknown In Holy Writ!

[Fiosh]

Hi Fiosh.

[JohnS]

Actually, James, the brother of Jesus, held the place of preeminence in the first church. When Peter was freed from prison, he instructed those gathered at the house of Mary to go and tell these things to James and to the brethren (Acts 12:17). And it was James again that judged in the matter of circumcision of the gentiles (Acts 15:13-21).

[jc49]

Can you prove that Jesus instituted Papacy? Jesus being God is the SUPREME AUTHORITY,so where does He in the Scriptures say that we should pray to Mary,His earthly mother?Where does Jesus say that we should pray ,worship,venerate Mary,the saints,the angels?

Unfortunately you are beating your hands against the air. The RCC doesn't believe the scriptures are the sole source of the Word of God, but that tradition is in fact equal to or even greater than the written word. This is how, in their minds, they "Justify" their idolatry of all of these relics and icons. They don't consider it idolatry though, because they are doing it "in the name of Jesus" or "In the name of Mary" or "In the name of the Pope." They don't consider the last of those two to be idolatry, because they associate Mary and the Pope with intercessors between man and Jesus himself. Therefore to a Catholic you can have an idol, so long as it is worshipped "In the Name of Jesus."

The senior pastor at my church tells a story about how on one visit to the vatican he observed Catholic pilgrims climbing up a stairway, kissing and licking! the steps as they go, because they have a story about how it is the supposed site of a miracle or a "Saint" or something that happened in Catholic history. The people are made to believe that if they do this often enough, then "god" will bless them, etc. This is no joke. There is actually a sign or plaque, posted by the RCC, by the stairway that says words to that effect!

Kissing is an integral part of many forms of idolatry. Catholics kiss their relics, statues, and icons.

1 kings 19: 18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

Kissing the statue of baal was a sign of baal worship.

Hosea 13:1 When Ephraim spake trembling, he exalted himself in Israel; but when he offended in Baal, he died. 2 And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves. 3 Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud and as the early dew that passeth away, as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the floor, and as the smoke out of the chimney. 4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

The RCC has made them idols of their own understanding. And they kiss them. The statues, supposedly of St. Peter (history records the statue is the Roman god Jupiter!,) statues of Mary(Nimrod's wife, "The Queen of Heaven"?), statues of Christ (or is it Tammuz?,) the little crucifixes, and even in this case stairs, are all kissed in Catholic worship!!

Not one time in scripture is kissing an inanimate object mentioned, except in the context of idol worship! We conclude, based on scripture, that kissing an inanimate object is idolatry, especially when praying to a person or spirit that is supposedly represented by that object.

BTW, Catholics, Baal worshippers and Molech worshippers didn't consider themselves idolaters either. They lied to themselves and said Baal was the true god. Which is why Elijah said, "Let the God who answers by fire be God." The statue of Baal just sat there powerless while its worshippers performed their prayers and rituals, cutting their wrists and doing Lord only knows what else to get its attention, and it didn't answer. Similarly, Mary doesn't hear you, even when you pray to her statue, or kiss it. Peter doesn't hear you, even when you kiss his statue. those stairs don't hear the poor decieved people climbing them and licking and kissing them, even though it is supposedly "In the name of Jesus". It is not the Jesus of the Bible, but "Another Jesus".

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Dear brother,

I couldnt agree with you more!

I rejoice reading that you are 24 years old and The Holy Spirit guides you in The Holy Scriptures ..I'm not praising you but our Lord grace in you,neverthless I rejoice because I was 23 years old when I first believed and got the Baptism with or in The Holy Spirit and immediatley The Holy Spirit put a thirst and an hunger for The Holy Bible and I was devouring the Book day and night..Praise The Lord!!

As you know now ,being italian I was born in the catholic faith( infant baptism) and later on all the other sacraments like first communion and christening.but at the age of 14 I left that apostate organisation ..and after a very turbulent life in the communist party and drugs sex and rock and roll at the age of 23 I was ready to take my life...I had overdosed once but God mercifully ( I didn't know was Him doing it) spared me and kept me alive and I went in eastern religion,yoga,induism,buddhism,you name it and even spiritism!!!!

But when Christ saved me ALL FELL FROM ME instantenously,from that moment on all I could or wanted do was praying in italian or tongues,read study the Scriptures,witness and preach Christ to everybody and go to fellowship Christ in church or at other believers homes!!

When I got saved I knew that JESUS IS GOD and I needed NO ONE ELSE nor ANYTHING ELSE!!!!

By the life of me I just cannot understand how the Rcc can affirm to love Jesus and then go on praying LA MADONNA and all the other saints and stuff!!!

I am 56 now and even though in my flesh I am far from what I would like to be for Him,HE HAS NEVER LEFT ME ,NO not for one day,not even when I went through some very heavy crisis..just like because HE IS FAITHFUL and TRUE.I remember than when in1977/78 in Italy started the charismatic movement among the catholics I couldnt believe that many Rcc believers were saying that the Madonna gave them the gift of tongues and were giving her the glory that belongs only and exclusively to God our Father!

Then I understood that i had to distance myself from those meetings with the Rcc charismatics..to my memory those that really experienced Jesus after awhile LEFT the RCC..others stayed in the ranks and have been sucked in all over again from the babylonian organization.

I repeat for the benefit of Rcc friends on this board that I love them and pray for them to find strenght aand courage in JESUS and HIM ALONE and get out of that babylonian cult.

Today the Rcc cardinals are in the Conclave,in secrecy( just like Masons do) to elect another VICARIUS FILII DEI,not even considering for one moment that only THE HOLY GHOST is the vicary of JESUS while we wait for the adoption,ie the redemption of the purchased possession,when Jesus will rapture HIS BRIDE...but there in Rome the SHOW MUST GO ON!!!!

Just to clarify,I don't dig people like Benny Hinn or Copeland or others similar,even though they say they are christians,because I know that THE GOSPEL should be preached for the glory of God and we should give freely what we have received freely.In fact I am not here to promote a denomination or church,protestant or catholic in spite of others,my aim,imperfect as I can be is to give glory to Jesus and love the brotherhood and that's it!

There is only ONE GOD and ONE MEDIATOR between God and man,THE MAN JESUS,WHO IS GOD BLESSED for EVER!

God bless us,brother

MARANATHA!!!!

[jc49]

Just to clarify,I don't dig people like Benny Hinn or Copeland or others similar,even though they say they are christians,because I know that THE GOSPEL should be preached for the glory of God and we should give freely what we have received freely.In fact I am not here to promote a denomination or church,protestant or catholic in spite of others,my aim,imperfect as I can be is to give glory to Jesus and love the brotherhood and that's it!

There is only ONE GOD and ONE MEDIATOR between God and man,THE MAN JESUS,WHO IS GOD BLESSED for EVER!

God bless us,brother

MARANATHA!!!!

Yeah, just to clarify, I don't promote anyone who comes on INSP or TBN, they are all "Greed Gospel" or Word of Faith, which is no faith at all.

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[nebula]

PPS. where does the Bible say we should NOT ask the saints to intercede for us?

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Hey!

I was wondering, how does asking the saints to intercede for you develop your relationship with the Lord?

When I ask a friend or pastor or whatever here on Earth to pray for me and pray with me, I am building a relationship with this person as we seek the Lord together.

Also, I also ask for help from others in this way because they, being outside my circumstances, may be able to offere insight that I may not see, or be able to hear from the Lord about my situation in ways I missed.

When you ask a saint in Heaven to intercede for you - what are you developing?

Besides, if we have free access to the Throne of Grace through the blood of Jesus, then why should their prayers be of more value than our own?

Do you believe your Father will not bend His ear to you His child that you need an intercessor in Heaven to stand in your behalf?

What relationship are you developing?

[Fiosh]

PS. Non-RCC Christians often refuse to allow Catholics to explain their beliefs by citing the teaching of the Church Fathers. Yet, will themselves cite Calvin, Wesley, etc. Maybe next time I could explain my understanding of that "hot button" word: Tradition?

Hogwash. I haven't quoted a single commentary the whole time I've been posting on here. Who are you reffering to? I couldn't care less what tradition say, as it regards a purely doctrinal stance. Now, when discussing hypothetical things, such as "How many people might have been alive at the great flood", then sometimes I refer to a traditional reference, such as Josephus, etc. But I don't care what the result is, unless it is in line with the Word of God. When you ask me, "What do you think about 'x'?" I am going to respond with the Biblical answer. Period.

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And "hogwash" to you sir WSB!

Your statement is the height of arrogance. It implies that you are the be-all and end-all of Bible interpretation and application!

(If you are, in fact, the most learned and studied of Biblical scholars, I retract my statement)

Thanks, I needed the laugh.

Fiosh

[Botz]

PPS. where does the Bible say we should NOT ask the saints to intercede for us?

Hi Fiosh.

The whole idea of praying/asking deceased brothers and sisters in the L-rd to pray for us is very difficult to swallow from a biblical stand-point...this would make them intermediaries and elevate them to a position that is not borne out in Scripture...thus making a dangerous doctrine that strips Jesus of part of His uniqueness as the Son of G-d in His role as Mediator with the Father.

1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; ...

Not only this...but it makes sincere Believers spend hours of fruitless prayer to those who have not the power nor the authority to undertake on their behalf...they may as well spend time praying to a piece of wood. It is a distraction and a false belief to pray to /ask requests of dead people...I don't call them saints as I believe the all Believers are saints.

By what reasoning and authority would you ask dead people to intercede for you?...and can't you see how it clashes with fundamental biblical truths...do you really think such an important thing would be omitted from Scripture?

We must guard our heart from the doctrines of men and of devils that seek only to steal,kill and destroy...and we must not allow ourselves to be robbed of our true inheritance amongst the Saints.

If we can be persuaded to re-direct our prayers to someone other than G-d..then the Devil has done a good job in rendering us spiritually impotent in those instances and blinded us to his wiles and the light of the truth.

Kind regards. Botz

[Fiosh]

PPS. where does the Bible say we should NOT ask the saints to intercede for us?

Hi Fiosh.

The whole idea of praying/asking deceased brothers and sisters in the L-rd to pray for us is very difficult to swallow from a biblical stand-point...this would make them intermediaries and elevate them to a position that is not borne out in Scripture...thus making a dangerous doctrine that strips Jesus of part of His uniqueness as the Son of G-d in His role as Mediator with the Father.

1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; ...

Not only this...but it makes sincere Believers spend hours of fruitless prayer to those who have not the power nor the authority to undertake on their behalf...they may as well spend time praying to a piece of wood. It is a distraction and a false belief to pray to /ask requests of dead people...I don't call them saints as I believe the all Believers are saints.

By what reasoning and authority would you ask dead people to intercede for you?...and can't you see how it clashes with fundamental biblical truths...do you really think such an important thing would be omitted from Scripture?

We must guard our heart from the doctrines of men and of devils that seek only to steal,kill and destroy...and we must not allow ourselves to be robbed of our true inheritance amongst the Saints.

If we can be persuaded to re-direct our prayers to someone other than G-d..then the Devil has done a good job in rendering us spiritually impotent in those instances and blinded us to his wiles and the light of the truth.

Kind regards. Botz

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Hi Botz,

I do understand how this is hard for you to swallow.

Let me ask you this basic question....

Is it ok for me to ask a friend to pray for me? What if I sit with my friend for 20 minutes explaining my problem and asking for her prayers; is that ok?

Peace,

Fiosh

[Botz]

Hi Fiosh.

We are told and encouraged to pray for one another.

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

We are in no way encouraged to speak to the dead or elevate them in any way whatsoever...quite the opposite.

Whatever we pray we are always doing it on behalf of others or ourselves....but it is always to the Father through the Son...it should never even enter our heads to petition dead Saints (any dead Believer) including Mary the blessed mother of our L-rd and Saviour.

In Him. Botz.

[Fiosh]

PS. Non-RCC Christians often refuse to allow Catholics to explain their beliefs by citing the teaching of the Church Fathers. Yet, will themselves cite Calvin, Wesley, etc. Maybe next time I could explain my understanding of that "hot button" word: Tradition?

Hogwash. I haven't quoted a single commentary the whole time I've been posting on here. Who are you reffering to? I couldn't care less what tradition say, as it regards a purely doctrinal stance. Now, when discussing hypothetical things, such as "How many people might have been alive at the great flood", then sometimes I refer to a traditional reference, such as Josephus, etc. But I don't care what the result is, unless it is in line with the Word of God. When you ask me, "What do you think about 'x'?" I am going to respond with the Biblical answer. Period.

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And "hogwash" to you sir WSB!

Your statement is the height of arrogance. It implies that you are the be-all and end-all of Bible interpretation and application!

(If you are, in fact, the most learned and studied of Biblical scholars, I retract my statement)

Thanks, I needed the laugh.

Fiosh

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Clever ability to avoid addressing two whole posts of mine there Fiosh. Care to explain yourself?

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WSB, I've already been here for 2 hours and I've got things to do---like laundry.

If you want all the details pick up any Catholic apologetics book--I recommend Karl Keating or Scott Hahn. It would take me 8 hours to reply to all your questions. And most of them have been answered already by myself or others here.

As for Peter, I didn't call him the "rock", Jesus did.

Yes, Jesus IS the foundation of the Church. And, He left Peter as his servant "rock" to lead the Church by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I've explained Mary till my fingers bled--we don't worship her.

And I've explained asking saints for intercession---just like asking you for prayer.

Gotta go do my wash.

In His love,

Fiosh