Guest shiloh357 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, inchrist said: again your legalistic agenda I have no legalistic agenda. I am not the one claiming anyone is required to do anything. You are. Quote you will not go to hell if you disobey the sabbath, rightfully you should be put to death, so thank Christ for taking your punishment instead. Okay, now that wasn't so hard, was it. That is all I wanted to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 24, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 hours ago, inchrist said: Heres the issue I have with both your responses The subject of food is from top to bottom in that Chapter, and somehow in the middle Paul is going to change subject from discussing food to discussing the sabbath, then change subject from that and back to food again? It goes against the natural flow of the chapter, and causes the chapter to be disruptive I read your response and can understand how you derived at the conclusion that I was speaking only of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is only one day esteemed. There are many more days that were esteemed. Trying to dog through all the days is fruitless, as it was told to us that only those weak in faith do so. This is the freedom Jesus spoke about The Sabbath day will never change. It is from sunset Friday until sunset Saturday. Keeping the Sabbath, however, is not a law on the Gentiles, but those who follow the law. If I esteem all days alike and do His work on everyday, will I be held as a lawbreaker if I do His work from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday? If so, then so should Jesus and the Apostles. Are we still under the law or are we under Grace? If the only day I have to worship is, let's say Tuesday, and have to work the rest of the days, am I condemned because of it? The verses I provided show that only those who are of a weak faith need to restrain for their conscience sake, and I am not to hold it against them. IF you hold to the idea that breaking the law is condemnation to a person, then nobody is saved as we all have broken the law and the fact that Jesus came for our salvation is null and void. Legalism has no place in Grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted October 24, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2017 42 minutes ago, OneLight said: Trying to dog through all the days is fruitless, as it was told to us that only those weak in faith do so. Realizing, almost certainly (in Harmony with all of Yahweh's Plan, His Word, and HIs Purpose) , that even the gentiles in the OT and the NT, whether strong in faith or weak in faith, when seeking Yahweh, both willing and joyfully and obediently without question observed and honored Yahweh's Sabbath on the 7th Day, and relied on the Jews / Jewish believers immersed in Yeshua's Name/ to know how and to learn how to "approach" Yahweh since the gentile peoples/ nations/ were as written "without hope" and "without Christ" until Yahweh took down the barrier between. The weak in faith did not have the arguments about the 7th Day Sabbath, no, but about other days, and about foods and washings and such, that were not the commandments of Yahweh written in stone, and written in the heart of all who follow Him in truth and love and grace and power and life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 hours ago, inchrist said: Obeying God's commandments is not legalistic Whatever, never said it was. I got the answer I wanted from you, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted October 24, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 24, 2017 re grace of TORAH (YAHWEH'S LAW) http://johnlbradfield.com/religion/hebrew-of-the-torah-and-the-christian-bible/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccardo Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 4 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 281 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 167 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/25/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2017 21 hours ago, other one said: Jesus spiritualized them all and they are covered in his two.... but his two are much more strict than the ten commandments. You can follow the ten commandments you whole life and still go to hell.... and when you push the ten commandments you can give people a false sense of security of salvation. Quote You should quote Mt 24:40 All the law & the prophets hang on the 2 commandments. Meaning they are encompassed within these 2 commandments, not negated because of them. if you love God with all your heart you will ahead to the firs 4, & love thy neighbor relate to the following 6 these related to our relationship with fellow man. Both those commandments are not new, Jesus was just quoting old testament commands, saying the 10 commandments are encompassed. Lev 19:9-18 & Deut 6:5 To say they are now more important but you don't have to follow the 10 commandments is somewhat of a oxymoron. The Spirit of truth always guides you into obedience, One of the main differences between the old & new Covenant is instead of written on tablets of stone God has now placed them in our heart & made it a desire, it is such a willingness to please Him, it is spiritual. Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, & so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him. We do not earn our salvation by works it is by GRACE only, just because we hold to the 4th commandment. You seem to be fixated on Sabbath keeper are trying to earn salvation no no no no no, I can't say it enough it seems most on this sight will not let that go. There is possible some that do but don't put the 99% in the same boat as the 1%. By grace through faith only will salvation come. The Christians that won't make it had wrong motives, they will be Sabbath keepers & Sunday keepers, they followed their spirit more than Gods. We are all directed to God through the Holy Spirit, but I repeat the Holy Spirit will be given more abundantly to those who obey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccardo Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 4 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 281 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 167 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/25/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2017 17 hours ago, shiloh357 said: So for the Christian who does not observe the Sabbath day, who chooses not to keep the Sabbath day, what is the eternal consequence? When a Christian who chooses not to keep the Sabbath day dies, where does that Christian spend eternity? That will depend on if you believe it to be the truth & you reject it, If you are fully convinced Sunday is the day to worship it is fine, until you come to the knowledge of truth, that goes both ways. As I said in a previous post 99% of Sabbath keeper core belief is we are saved by grace through faith not by anything we do, but if we reject the Holy Spirits prompting we all have a problem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Abdicate said: You're believing a lie and attacking me for defending the word of God. Well, God bless. SLAP SLAP SLAP WAKE UP! Correct - they : most of the world , most of the religious world, is believing a lie because that is what they were taught and what they believe (not because it is true). If and when they find out the truth, if they love the truth, and if they take a stand for the truth, they leave the carnal religion to receive life in Christ Jesus - RESURRECTION LIFE ! - separate and set apart from the evil wicked society , called out from babylong, delivered out from the deception of the one world religious errors..... Thus, few find the narrow road to life. Some more might, if they were willing to , but they are not willing (even with proof), and so nothing will save them nor change their minds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted October 25, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Riccardo said: That will depend on if you believe it to be the truth & you reject it, If you are fully convinced Sunday is the day to worship it is fine, until you come to the knowledge of truth, that goes both ways. As I said in a previous post 99% of Sabbath keeper core belief is we are saved by grace through faith not by anything we do, but if we reject the Holy Spirits prompting we all have a problem Hope , or rather Love Hopes, for the best, and God will be so generous..... For comparison, if someone sins in adultery, and continues to commit adultery throughout their life, and doesn't stop, doesn't repent, will God be merciful to them ? Or will He consider it "trampling under foot the BLOOD OF CHRIST " ? Or Greed. Greed is very often called "wise planning". (so many are self-deceived and deceived by others in this).... So with a seered conscience, someone (many?) might thing themselves truly 'okay' , as if the greed is non-sinful .... will God overlook their greed if they do not ever repent ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Riccardo said: That will depend on if you believe it to be the truth & you reject it, If you are fully convinced Sunday is the day to worship it is fine, until you come to the knowledge of truth, that goes both ways. As I said in a previous post 99% of Sabbath keeper core belief is we are saved by grace through faith not by anything we do, but if we reject the Holy Spirits prompting we all have a problem See that is not how it works. Sin doesn't become sin when you think it is sin. Sin is disobedience. If you think that shacking up before marriage is okay, it still fornication. It doesn't matter if you are convinced or not. Sin is sin. So IF salvation is conditional on keeping the Sabbath day, it doesn't matter if I am convinced or not; disobedience is disobedience. If I am told it is required for salvation, but I reject that message, what happens to me in eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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