Guest shiloh357 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, brakelite said: Just a thought. We know that the OT is full of types and shadows of Christ. It is suggested that the Sabbath is a type and that Christ is the fulfillment requiring no further observation. In the wilderness manna was given each day, and corrupted overnight so as not to be fit for food the next day. Except on the 6th day, when sufficient for two days fell and did not corrupt, so as to save Israel from gathering on the Sabbath. Interesting though that Jesus, the bread of heaven, the Life-giver, gave all on the 6th day and rested on the Sabbath without seeing corruption. Thus after the close of the Levitical dispensation even Jesus Himself,in death, observed the Sabbath. In His resurrection, Jesus is the personification and embodiment of the Sabbath. It is in His resurrection that He is has fulfilled the Sabbath requiring no further observance. We rest in Jesus, not on a day. If someone is resting on a day and linking that to salvation, they are committing idolatry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted November 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: In His resurrection, Jesus is the personification and embodiment of the Sabbath. It is in His resurrection that He is has fulfilled the Sabbath requiring no further observance. We rest in Jesus, not on a day. If someone is resting on a day and linking that to salvation, they are committing idolatry. I think that if you asked most Sabbath keepers you will find that they would inform you that they rest in Christ AND on the day, and link that with their relationship with God. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Just now, brakelite said: I think that if you asked most Sabbath keepers you will find that they would inform you that they rest in Christ AND on the day, and link that with their relationship with God. They can rest on the day if they want, but if they are linking that to salvation, if they believe that God requires this of them as a litmus test for salvation, it is still idolatry. I know Messianic Jews who observe the Sabbath, but it is not the case with them that they are attempting to earn God's favor, nor do they feel they are keeping themselves saved in the keeping the Sabbath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, inchrist said: I think we have been through this 1000 times now with you, no one on here who are sabbath keepers is stating the sabbath is the litmus test for salvation. Yes, they are. That is a core tenet of the SDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted November 4, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2017 Hi all. Peace. When the Lord Yeshua, Eashoa, Jesus, walked the earth he was HOUNDED by Pharisaical people. They had this spirit of legal fervor that they attacked the Lord with most of the time. Why? Because they were deficient in understanding and incensed that He could be so calm and complete within Himself without bowing the knee to their additional Judaistic rules. They hated God. The more they saw Yeshua, the more they realized how far from the mark they had drifted. They 'kept' the empty laws because it was not in their hearts to understand them; so to assuage this lack they attacked Him. They knew they were wrong - this spurred them on yet more! They made up stories to try to trap Him. They even used God's Law (the law of the WORD) to try to trip Him up. They were like the fanatic that; cannot change his mind or ever change the subject. They had a deficiency; they tried to offset this by relentless attacks - they killed the Messiah thinking they did Yahweh a service. The early church were well aware of this. The fathers all say, like the apostles before them, for believers NOT to follow Judaic additions to the Sabbath; just keep the Sabbath in honor of Yeshua. As the student of church history will find, the 1st century Jews were so completely hated and reviled that anything that came close to being of Jewish origin or remotely influenced by them was to be disdained.Some even went so far as to say the Jews were not even human. There was so much livid hatred of all things Israeli. Much of the early writings and subsequent world history has proved that this persecution will not end until the WORDS of His mouth do so with a final bang! There is seen today an unconscious HATRED of the law as seen thru the eyes of some enlightened Christians. I suggest that deep down, on some kind of subliminal level, there still exists that awful anti-Semitic hatred that portrays itself in the most bizarre ways. It is revealed in spirit quite often. Sometimes, a few verses in the scriptures about not burdening believers with these OT 'laws', are suddenly alive with an energy far exceeding their original purpose. This emblazons the 'laws' and finds anyone REMOTELY likely to ponder them as anathema. That is the only word I can find to describe the proponents of this anti-Sabbath fervor. It is like a lynch-mob. Its roots are anti-Semitic. It is an unreasoning hatred. It defies logic or reasonable discussion. Horrible! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Is Jesus Coming? Posted November 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 505 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 299 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/19/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2017 Between the 1st and 3rd centuries AD, the Roman Empire gradually replaced the old eight-day Roman nundinal calendar with the new seven-day week. Our earliest evidence for this new system is a Pompeiian graffito referring to the 6th February (viii idus Februarius) of the year AD 60 as dies solis ("Sunday"):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_...ys_of_the_weekYet the modern calendar says it was a Wednesday:https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=60&country=9Julius Caesar was not Jewish (or a Christian!) Nor was the Greek Mathematician Sosigenes who invented the Julian calendar! Does anyone here understand this? Can anyone prove our current seven day week matches the Israelite's week from the Bible? No you can't can you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted November 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2017 (edited) On 04/11/2017 at 6:52 PM, shiloh357 said: They can rest on the day if they want, but if they are linking that to salvation, if they believe that God requires this of them as a litmus test for salvation, it is still idolatry. I know Messianic Jews who observe the Sabbath, but it is not the case with them that they are attempting to earn God's favor, nor do they feel they are keeping themselves saved in the keeping the Sabbath. It may in time become for some a litmus test for obedience, just as Abrahams offering of Isaac was for him a litmus test for obedience...but it was also a test of faith. Did Abraham believe God's promises? His obedience cried, "yes"! And his faith was counted as righteousness. I also believe Gods promises of Sabbath blessings if I obey His commandments. See Isaiah 58. My obedience is a reflection of my faith in God's promises. Yet it isn't even my faith. It's the faith OF Jesus. "Here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus" Rev. 14:12 So obedience is not a prerequisite to salvation. But disobedience cannot be the fruit of salvation. Honoring the 4th commandment is not nor ever has been a means or avenue toward justification...any more than is not commuting adultery or not killing anybody. Yet is one saved if he is a practicing serial killer knowing its wrong? Edited November 7, 2017 by brakelite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 1 minute ago, brakelite said: It may in time become for some a litmus test for obedience, just as Grahams offering of Isaac was for him a litmus test for obedience...but it was also a test of faith. Did Abraham believe God's promises? His obedience cried, "yes"! And his faith was counted as righteousness. I also believe Gods promises of Sabbath blessings if I obey His commandments. See Isaiah 58. My obedience is a reflection of my faith in God's promises. Yet it isn't even my faith. It's the faith OF Jesus. "Here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus" Rev. 14:12 So obedience is not a prerequisite to salvation. But disobedience cannot be the fruit of salvation. Honoring the 4th commandment is not nor ever has been a means or avenue toward justification...any more than is not commuting adultery or not killing anybody. Yet is one saved if he is a practicing serial killer knowing its wrong? So if one is not a practicing Sabbath keeper and is, instead, a practicing Sunday observer, that person is not saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted November 4, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2017 40 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: So if one is not a practicing Sabbath keeper and is, instead, a practicing Sunday observer, that person is not saved? If one is a practising Sunday observer knowing in his conscience it is wrong, deliberately ignoring a commandment of God in favor of a commandment of man, then surely you are mature enough to make your own judgement in such a case. Why rely on me? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, brakelite said: If one is a practising Sunday observer knowing in his conscience it is wrong, deliberately ignoring a commandment of God in favor of a commandment of man, then surely you are mature enough to make your own judgement in such a case. Why rely on me? So, it's only sin if you know it is sin? Do we let out children get away with doing wrong when they don't know, or think it is wrong? Is sin only sin when it bothers your conscience? So for those who are perfectly okay with Sunday observance and do not believe that the Sabbath is day is required of them despite being told by you and others like you that it IS required and is an indicator of salvation, and have no conviction in their heart that they should observe the Sabbath day, they are not sinning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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