When is the Sabbath?

[HarvestLabourer]

1 hour ago, other one said:

Is it ok if I just say "I don't care when the True Sabbath is?"

Bless you, other one.

But that is not the way to hallow His holy day.

The first sabbath for most people, is when they first give their life over to Jesus.
It is like a mini sabbath.
But because it was a sincere offering, a real sacrifice, and you offered up your spirit broken,
Jesus comes.
(Casts out a couple of your bigger devils, and gives a meal of meat and wine.)

That is why we hallow the sabbath day,
because it is the day the Lord comes and sanctifies us.
As we grow, so aught our sabbaths.

Thank You Jesus 
and Thank You for Your holy day
Paul

And hallow My sabbaths;
and they shall be a sign between Me and you,
that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.
Ezekiel 20:20

Edited November 28, 2017 by HarvestLabourer
typographical error

[inchrist]

5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

They are going to church on Saturday.  They think that's all they need to do to "get it right."

Rom 12:1

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship.

[inchrist]

5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

And causing a whole host of other people to have to work on the Sabbath as well, whether they even travel from their home or not.  Saturday still wouldn't be right, no matter what, as for just going to church.  To even have a hope of "keeping" the Sabbath, in the way the Bible commands, they would have to go completely off the grid for a 24 hour period.

Oh boy you never will get it.

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

When is the Sabbath?

1. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus kept the Sabbath and therefore the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts must have been common knowledge at this time.

2. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and formed a seat of rabbinic learning in the south of Galilee, where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts by travelling to Jerusalem each month to sight the new moon. 

3. Over the successive generations from 70 AD onwards these traumatic events had forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of the Roman Empire and beyond in what was called the Diaspora. They were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low.

4. Then after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt between 132 - 135 AD and Emperor Hadrian's violent response which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion in the empire with some 13 legions being sent, (only 4 were sent in 70 AD for example); Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel. This also meant the Sanhedrin could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem in order to know when their Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts were. Even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to the poor survivors living abroad as there was no way that the monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to calculate when the Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts were meant to be. They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west.

5. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by the new Roman Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar. This new calendar that first took effect in the province of Rome had started on 1st January 45 BC and this day was named 'Friday' (each the 7 days of this new calendar was given a new name, named after a Roman god). However the day before 1st January 45 BC the Romans calculated dates using a completely different ancient Roman calendar that had an 8 day week, where the days were simply named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years by the Romans in the province of Rome. The new Julian calendar 7 day week was created by Sosigenes the Greek Mathematician and it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar week, as they were totally separate from each other. It then took about 400 years before all the other countries within the Roman Empire were eventually forced to use the new Julian calendar as recorded in history. 

6. As the new Roman Julian 7 day week that began separately from the ancient Hebrew week began to take over the Roman Empire, the early church, which was mainly made up of non-Jews (after Peter the first Pope), simply used the new Julian calendar's 7th day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, even though it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar and its reckoning of when the Sabbath was. The Roman Catholic church carried on with this regardless of the fact that the Julian calendar was totally different from the ancient Hebrew calendar.

7. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive within the Roman Empire. As each generation lived and worked in these countries that were using the new 7 day Julian week, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on their Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep their Sabbaths, new moons or annual feasts on the correct day as calculated by their ancient Hebrew calendar. As said even if they tried to sight the new moon from wherever they were living this would not be on the same day compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west and more importantly on the day the new moon would be seen from Jerusalem. As each generation gradually came and went it became harder and harder to NOT fit in with the new Roman Julian 7 day working week. Eventually over these generations the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar was practically lost to the Jews living in the Empire and Saturday became more and more accepted as the day of rest. 

8. Then in 321 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine who hated the Jews (along with most of the rest of the Roman world) changed the day of rest on the new Julian calendar from Saturday to Sunday, this forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what many though by now was the Sabbath (Saturday) or become even more impoverished. This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it hasn't never been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar but has always been calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar.

9. In response to all this in 359 AD Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II in Israel created the new Jewish modern calendar which uses the mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle, that allows all Jews to celebrate all of their new moon days and annual feast days on the same day no matter where in the world they live (even though half of the time it is a day out compared to the visually sighted new moon from Jerusalem). However, although this gives a good approximation of when the Jewish new moon days and annual feast are, Hillel appears to have not attempted to try and get the Jews to also follow the original Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. The reason for this was because the Jews who were scattered across the Roman Empire and beyond who were simply struggling to survive had all become so used to the new Julian calendar and it's Saturday Sabbath and that if they would have tried to go back to worshipping on the correct day of the ancient Hebrew calendar it would have placed a further burden on them and put them at risk of being even more persecuted, because taking days off work that were calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar rather than fitting in with the new Saturday (Or even Sunday) day of rest would have caused confusion and resentment towards them.

10. The Hebrew calendar and it reckoning of when the Sabbath really was drifted from human history to be almost forgotten. This calendar that was once common knowledge to the ancient Hebrews and the authors of the Bible never thought it necessary to explain this calendar in one convenient place. However, hidden amongst the scriptures of the Bible are many references to the ancient Hebrew calendar and its Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts, which can be sifted out and reconstructed. This is not an easy thing to do however, if it was then more people would know about it but then most people don't even know about all the above information either, so it is understandable if you have never heard about where and how these snippets of scripture explain the ancient Hebrew calendar. Their are various studies on the ancient Hebrew calendar as describes in the Bible, here are a couple:

Articles:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.co...ding-the-book/

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

[other one]

1 hour ago, When Is Jesus Coming? said:

When is the Sabbath?

I am assuming that you keep the 4th commandment.   

Do you ever start your car on that day?

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

4 hours ago, other one said:

I am assuming that you keep the 4th commandment.   

Do you ever start your car on that day?

Why would you assume? 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

21 hours ago, HarvestLabourer said:

Thank you.

Three times in a year we are to appear before the Lord.
I take it that Jesus means at least 3 times.

These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations,
which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
Leviticus 23:4

Praise Jesus
Paul

 

Deuteronomy 16:16 – Three times a year all your men must appear before the LORD your God at the place he will choose:

Passover : Fulfilled by Jesus

Pentecost : Fulfilled by Jesus

Tabernacles : To be Fulfilled…

 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

20 hours ago, Yowm said:

When is the Sabbath?

It would depend where in the world you were located in reference to Jerusalem.

At 6pm Friday night in Jerusalem (Beginning of the Sabbath) it would be about 8am Fri in Los Angeles and about 1am Sun in No. Korea.

So go figure.

I wonder if those trying to keep the Sabbath in the U.S. are going by absolute Jerusalem time or relative U.S. time?

That's assuming they are using the modern Hillel II calendar but those problems are removed when using God's ancient Hebrew calendar. 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

19 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

He is not missing the point.  As he pointed out, this Rabbi created the new calendar.  He did not re-constructed it from past data, since that cannot be done.  So it is not accurate, nor can any subsequent calendar be correct either.  Once the system is abandoned for centuries and you begin mixing 3 different calendar systems, no one can back-track and sort through that mess with any confidence that the answer they come up with is correct.  God broke that entire system on purpose, beyond human repair to illustrate that Jesus was the only way.  The Sabbath and what day it falls on is academic to the Church. 

That's all incorrect. 

1. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus kept the Sabbath and therefore the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts must have been common knowledge at this time.

2. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and formed a seat of rabbinic learning in the south of Galilee, where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts by travelling to Jerusalem each month to sight the new moon. 

3. Over the successive generations from 70 AD onwards these traumatic events had forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of the Roman Empire and beyond in what was called the Diaspora. They were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low.

4. Then after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt between 132 - 135 AD and Emperor Hadrian's violent response which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion in the empire with some 13 legions being sent, (only 4 were sent in 70 AD for example); Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel. This also meant the Sanhedrin could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem in order to know when their Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts were. Even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to the poor survivors living abroad as there was no way that the monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to calculate when the Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts were meant to be. They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west.

5. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by the new Roman Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar. This new calendar that first took effect in the province of Rome had started on 1st January 45 BC and this day was named 'Friday' (each the 7 days of this new calendar was given a new name, named after a Roman god). However the day before 1st January 45 BC the Romans calculated dates using a completely different ancient Roman calendar that had an 8 day week, where the days were simply named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years by the Romans in the province of Rome. The new Julian calendar 7 day week was created by Sosigenes the Greek Mathematician and it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar week, as they were totally separate from each other. It then took about 400 years before all the other countries within the Roman Empire were eventually forced to use the new Julian calendar as recorded in history. 

6. As the new Roman Julian 7 day week that began separately from the ancient Hebrew week began to take over the Roman Empire, the early church, which was mainly made up of non-Jews (after Peter the first Pope), simply used the new Julian calendar's 7th day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, even though it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar and its reckoning of when the Sabbath was. The Roman Catholic church carried on with this regardless of the fact that the Julian calendar was totally different from the ancient Hebrew calendar.

7. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive within the Roman Empire. As each generation lived and worked in these countries that were using the new 7 day Julian week, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on their Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep their Sabbaths, new moons or annual feasts on the correct day as calculated by their ancient Hebrew calendar. As said even if they tried to sight the new moon from wherever they were living this would not be on the same day compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west and more importantly on the day the new moon would be seen from Jerusalem. As each generation gradually came and went it became harder and harder to NOT fit in with the new Roman Julian 7 day working week. Eventually over these generations the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar was practically lost to the Jews living in the Empire and Saturday became more and more accepted as the day of rest. 

8. Then in 321 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine who hated the Jews (along with most of the rest of the Roman world) changed the day of rest on the new Julian calendar from Saturday to Sunday, this forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what many though by now was the Sabbath (Saturday) or become even more impoverished. This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it hasn't never been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar but has always been calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar.

9. In response to all this in 359 AD Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II in Israel created the new Jewish modern calendar which uses the mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle, that allows all Jews to celebrate all of their new moon days and annual feast days on the same day no matter where in the world they live (even though half of the time it is a day out compared to the visually sighted new moon from Jerusalem). However, although this gives a good approximation of when the Jewish new moon days and annual feast are, Hillel appears to have not attempted to try and get the Jews to also follow the original Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. The reason for this was because the Jews who were scattered across the Roman Empire and beyond who were simply struggling to survive had all become so used to the new Julian calendar and it's Saturday Sabbath and that if they would have tried to go back to worshipping on the correct day of the ancient Hebrew calendar it would have placed a further burden on them and put them at risk of being even more persecuted, because taking days off work that were calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar rather than fitting in with the new Saturday (Or even Sunday) day of rest would have caused confusion and resentment towards them.

10. The Hebrew calendar and it reckoning of when the Sabbath really was drifted from human history to be almost forgotten. This calendar that was once common knowledge to the ancient Hebrews and the authors of the Bible never thought it necessary to explain this calendar in one convenient place. However, hidden amongst the scriptures of the Bible are many references to the ancient Hebrew calendar and its Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts, which can be sifted out and reconstructed. This is not an easy thing to do however, if it was then more people would know about it but then most people don't even know about all the above information either, so it is understandable if you have never heard about where and how these snippets of scripture explain the ancient Hebrew calendar. Their are various studies on the ancient Hebrew calendar as describes in the Bible and here are a couple of articles to that explain it:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.co...ding-the-book/

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

15 hours ago, JohnD said:

Technically Saturday.

Practically, under the new covenant, every day.

Sabbath era / age of grace.

We (like old testament priests) work on sabbath.

He has made us a kingdom of priests... Revelation 1:6 5:10

And the Sunday sabbath shim sham is just another Roman Catholic Empire way of sneaking Constantine's sun worship past the guards.

Actually this thread is about another issue regarding the Sabbath: 

1. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus kept the Sabbath and therefore the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts must have been common knowledge at this time.

2. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and formed a seat of rabbinic learning in the south of Galilee, where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts by travelling to Jerusalem each month to sight the new moon. 

3. Over the successive generations from 70 AD onwards these traumatic events had forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of the Roman Empire and beyond in what was called the Diaspora. They were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low.

4. Then after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt between 132 - 135 AD and Emperor Hadrian's violent response which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion in the empire with some 13 legions being sent, (only 4 were sent in 70 AD for example); Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel. This also meant the Sanhedrin could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem in order to know when their Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts were. Even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to the poor survivors living abroad as there was no way that the monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to calculate when the Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts were meant to be. They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west.

5. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by the new Roman Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar. This new calendar that first took effect in the province of Rome had started on 1st January 45 BC and this day was named 'Friday' (each the 7 days of this new calendar was given a new name, named after a Roman god). However the day before 1st January 45 BC the Romans calculated dates using a completely different ancient Roman calendar that had an 8 day week, where the days were simply named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years by the Romans in the province of Rome. The new Julian calendar 7 day week was created by Sosigenes the Greek Mathematician and it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar week, as they were totally separate from each other. It then took about 400 years before all the other countries within the Roman Empire were eventually forced to use the new Julian calendar as recorded in history. 

6. As the new Roman Julian 7 day week that began separately from the ancient Hebrew week began to take over the Roman Empire, the early church, which was mainly made up of non-Jews (after Peter the first Pope), simply used the new Julian calendar's 7th day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, even though it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar and its reckoning of when the Sabbath was. The Roman Catholic church carried on with this regardless of the fact that the Julian calendar was totally different from the ancient Hebrew calendar.

7. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive within the Roman Empire. As each generation lived and worked in these countries that were using the new 7 day Julian week, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on their Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep their Sabbaths, new moons or annual feasts on the correct day as calculated by their ancient Hebrew calendar. As said even if they tried to sight the new moon from wherever they were living this would not be on the same day compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west and more importantly on the day the new moon would be seen from Jerusalem. As each generation gradually came and went it became harder and harder to NOT fit in with the new Roman Julian 7 day working week. Eventually over these generations the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar was practically lost to the Jews living in the Empire and Saturday became more and more accepted as the day of rest. 

8. Then in 321 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine who hated the Jews (along with most of the rest of the Roman world) changed the day of rest on the new Julian calendar from Saturday to Sunday, this forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what many though by now was the Sabbath (Saturday) or become even more impoverished. This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it hasn't never been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar but has always been calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar.

9. In response to all this in 359 AD Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II in Israel created the new Jewish modern calendar which uses the mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle, that allows all Jews to celebrate all of their new moon days and annual feast days on the same day no matter where in the world they live (even though half of the time it is a day out compared to the visually sighted new moon from Jerusalem). However, although this gives a good approximation of when the Jewish new moon days and annual feast are, Hillel appears to have not attempted to try and get the Jews to also follow the original Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. The reason for this was because the Jews who were scattered across the Roman Empire and beyond who were simply struggling to survive had all become so used to the new Julian calendar and it's Saturday Sabbath and that if they would have tried to go back to worshipping on the correct day of the ancient Hebrew calendar it would have placed a further burden on them and put them at risk of being even more persecuted, because taking days off work that were calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar rather than fitting in with the new Saturday (Or even Sunday) day of rest would have caused confusion and resentment towards them.

10. The Hebrew calendar and it reckoning of when the Sabbath really was drifted from human history to be almost forgotten. This calendar that was once common knowledge to the ancient Hebrews and the authors of the Bible never thought it necessary to explain this calendar in one convenient place. However, hidden amongst the scriptures of the Bible are many references to the ancient Hebrew calendar and its Sabbaths, new moons and annual feasts, which can be sifted out and reconstructed. This is not an easy thing to do however, if it was then more people would know about it but then most people don't even know about all the above information either, so it is understandable if you have never heard about where and how these snippets of scripture explain the ancient Hebrew calendar. Their are various studies on the ancient Hebrew calendar as describes in the Bible and here are a couple of articles that explain it:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.co...ding-the-book/

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm