Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

[Psalms37:4]

6 hours ago, inchrist said:

You mistake me for a traditional postrib....im prebowl rapturist, in other words 7th trumpet rapture marriage to his first bride then rev 19 christ coming for his second bride.

Someone actually thinks this is biblical?   

[Psalms37:4]

7 hours ago, inchrist said:

then rev 19 christ coming for his second bride.

Let me just clarify this a little better. This is who Jesus is coming for in Revelation 19. 

 

Revelation 19:13-21New King James Version (NKJV)

¹³ He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. ¹⁴ And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. ¹⁵ Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. ¹⁶ And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

¹⁷ Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, ¹⁸ that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

¹⁹ And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. ²⁰ Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. ²¹ And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 

[Quasar93]

6 hours ago, inchrist said:

No, Im calling pre trib a lie big difference.

Rev 4 gives no contextual evidence for symbolism of the Church. This is complete fabrication.

By the same technique you are forced to admit, symbolic church is then taken back to earth for the tribulation

Rev 17:3 

Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns

 

Further again how can John be symbolic of the Church raptured when he is to write to the church back on earth

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, ¹¹ which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna,Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”

Your symbolic use of John as the raptured church is proven inconsistent

And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Mark 13:27

And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Rev 11:18

The time has come for judging the dead,
    and for rewarding your servants 

1 th 4:16

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first

luke 19:15 

Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it."He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

............................

luke 31:26 

“Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap; for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth. But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Context states christ teachings not to fall away from him, if we become distracted by the things christ warned us of, you wont see it coming and will be taking by surprise. The escape Christ is talking about has nothing to do with pre trib. It is escaping temptation to fall away.

Further even the NT greek is against you

katischysēte verb means to have strength against

Have strength against falling away so you may escape out of it not from it.

............

As for your mansions......please show me in Revelation these mansions?

The text has absolutely nothing to do with billion dollar real estates. 

The meaning is abode, the adjective form is abiding 

The adjective for ménō is menomen

 1 John 4:13 

This is how we know that we live (mansion) in him and he (mansion) in us: He has given us of his Spirit

John 14:2 states nothing to support timing of pretrib.

But that of rewards.

Rev 11:18 refutes your timing

The time has come for judging the dead,
    and for rewarding your servants 

Still does not support your timing of pretrib.

Doctrines built on silence will always be shown to be false

Side note.....i would drop the rhetoric. Your posts are not above testing. 

 

 

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul That you reject, insisting you know better than they do.  Prove any of the following is false, or your views are.  You remain refuted.  Case closed.

 

FYI, the mansions you alluded to Jesus is preparing for us, in Jn.14;2-3, is the text of the KJV, and the mansions are in the New Jerusalem God will bring down from heaven in Rev.21:2-3. 

 

And where may I ask did you obtain your qualifications to teach the Bible, let alone eschatology?

 

Mt.24:31:

And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out.

Lk.21:36:
"Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.

1 Thes.4:13-18:
The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.

"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

"Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.'Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In verse 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!


The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf

 

The pre-trib rapture of the Church views posted above fully endorsed by the following:

 

1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.

Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV ministry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth.

 

 

Quasar93

Edited December 14, 2017 by Quasar93

[Quasar93]

2 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Let me just clarify this a little better. This is who Jesus is coming for in Revelation 19. 

 

Revelation 19:13-21New King James Version (NKJV)

¹³ He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. ¹⁴ And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. ¹⁵ Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. ¹⁶ And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

¹⁷ Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, ¹⁸ that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

¹⁹ And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. ²⁰ Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. ²¹ And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 

A review of verse 14 reveals the Church following Jesus, in His second coming, from their marriage in heaven, in verses 7-8, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven.  In verses 17 tyrough 21, Jesus is fighting the battle of Armageddon with His armies from heaven, against the two beasts,i.e., the Antichrist nd False Prophet, and the ten horns/nations allied to them.  The two beasts re thrown into the lake of fire and the armies of the ten horns/nations are destroyed...ending the seven year tribulation.

 

Quasar93

[inchrist]

4 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

 

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul That you reject, insisting you know better than they do.  Prove any of the following is false, or your views are.  You remain refuted.  Case closed.

 

This is nothing more than an attempt to suppress the biblical right to test all things.

You do not own the right to biblical interpretation. Period!

You have been shown your symbolism of John/church in Rev 4 to be inconsistent....does Dr Ice not have a rebuttal on the inconsistency for you?

Quote

 mansions are in the New Jerusalem God will bring down from heaven in Rev.21:2-3.

New Jerusalem is made out of living stones the measure of a man

As taught by Peter 

you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ

Nevertheless this still does not give the timing of the pretrib rapture

Quote

 And where may I ask did you obtain your qualifications to teach the Bible, let alone eschatology

Thankfully not from pretribs

Quote

 The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:

You not paying attention.....I never stated I was post trib.

I do accept we go into the state of heaven.

Quote

 "For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years

Edited: sure first fruits resurrected, however the dead in christ not yet ressurected.

Quote

 Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures

I beg to differ

Rev 11:18

 The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your nam

ezekiel 37

This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. ¹³ Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. ¹⁴ I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. 

Daniel 12:2

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Rev 20

 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not …

Quote

 Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist

Daniels 70th week is a marriage proposal, the covenant (marriage proposal) has nothing to do with the antichrist. This is set forth in scripture dominance of Christ making a covenant with many and the prophetic pattern of Jacob, leah and rachel

Mat 26:28

This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Quote

Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church

no where in the entirety of the bible does apostasia mean rapture.

the word is used one other time 

acts 21:21

the Gentiles to forsake Moses,

If we put the word departure in, no problem

the Gentiles depart from Moses

The word departure, no problem to mean a departure from faith

Lets put the word rapture in

the Gentiles raptured from Moses

What are we saying here? The gentiles were raptured from Moses? Seriously?

You are changing the very definition of the word departure used by the Holy spirit, who preserved the meaning of the word to be revolt or departure from faith.

No where does apostasia mean a departure from earth, it is used in direct correlation in NT Greek with a departure/ revolt from religion.

Doctrines built from silence will inevitable be found false 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by inchrist

[inchrist]

5 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Let me just clarify this a little better. This is who Jesus is coming for in Revelation 19. 

 

Revelation 19:13-21New King James Version (NKJV)

¹³ He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. ¹⁴ And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. ¹⁵ Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. ¹⁶ And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

¹⁷ Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, ¹⁸ that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

¹⁹ And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. ²⁰ Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. ²¹ And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 

Did you forget about the House of Judah?

On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblestamong them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them. ⁹ On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

Mourning for the One They Pierced

¹⁰ “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit^[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on^[b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. ¹¹ On that day the weepingin Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. ¹² The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, ¹³ the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, ¹⁴ and all the rest of the clans and their wives.

[inchrist]

6 hours ago, Psalms37:4 said:

Someone actually thinks this is biblical?   

This coming from someone who thinks God in Ezekiel 37 is going to resurrect an exceedingly great army for it to run away when the antichrist comes and later 2/3rds to be destroyed....great work

 

[Psalms37:4]

5 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

A review of verse 14 reveals the Church following Jesus, in His second coming, from their marriage in heaven, in verses 7-8, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven.  In verses 17 tyrough 21, Jesus is fighting the battle of Armageddon with His armies from heaven, against the two beasts,i.e., the Antichrist nd False Prophet, and the ten horns/nations allied to them.  The two beasts re thrown into the lake of fire and the armies of the ten horns/nations are destroyed...ending the seven year tribulation.

 

Quasar93

Thanks for sharing this Quasar93.

 

 

[Quasar93]

9 hours ago, inchrist said:

This is nothing more than an attempt to suppress the biblical right to test all things.

You do not own the right to biblical interpretation. Period!

You have been shown your symbolism of John/church in Rev 4 to be inconsistent....does Dr Ice not have a rebuttal on the inconsistency for you?

New Jerusalem is made out of living stones the measure of a man

As taught by Peter 

you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ

Nevertheless this still does not give the timing of the pretrib rapture

Thankfully not from pretribs

You not paying attention.....I never stated I was post trib.

I do accept we go into the state of heaven.

Edited: sure first fruits resurrected, however the dead in christ not yet ressurected.

I beg to differ

Rev 11:18

 The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your nam

ezekiel 37

This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. ¹³ Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them. ¹⁴ I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. 

Daniel 12:2

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Rev 20

 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not …

Daniels 70th week is a marriage proposal, the covenant (marriage proposal) has nothing to do with the antichrist. This is set forth in scripture dominance of Christ making a covenant with many and the prophetic pattern of Jacob, leah and rachel

Mat 26:28

This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

no where in the entirety of the bible does apostasia mean rapture.

the word is used one other time 

acts 21:21

the Gentiles to forsake Moses,

If we put the word departure in, no problem

the Gentiles depart from Moses

The word departure, no problem to mean a departure from faith

Lets put the word rapture in

the Gentiles raptured from Moses

What are we saying here? The gentiles were raptured from Moses? Seriously?

You are changing the very definition of the word departure used by the Holy spirit, who preserved the meaning of the word to be revolt or departure from faith.

No where does apostasia mean a departure from earth, it is used in direct correlation in NT Greek with a departure/ revolt from religion.

Doctrines built from silence will inevitable be found false 

 

 

 

Quote by Inchrist: >>>"This is nothing more than an attempt to suppress the biblical right to test all things.

You do not own the right to biblical interpretation. Period!

You have been shown your symbolism of John/church in Rev 4 to be inconsistent....does Dr Ice not have a rebuttal on the inconsistency for you?"<<<

Quote by Inchrist: >>>"This is nothing more than an attempt to suppress the biblical right to test all things.

You do not own the right to biblical interpretation. Period!

You have been shown your symbolism of John/church in Rev 4 to be inconsistent....does Dr Ice not have a rebuttal on the inconsistency for you?"<<<

To the contrary.  In all of my posts to you, as in the very one you quoted me in your reply to me, are open invitations to prove the views you have, as revealed in my following remarks that you quoted:

>>>"The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul That you reject, insisting you know better than they do.  Prove any of the following is false, or your views are.  You remain refuted.  Case closed."<<<

Your claim my views that Rev.4:1-2 symbolize the Apostle John symbolizing the Church being called up into heaven before the tribulation begins, as being inconsistent, could not be further from the truth.  I stated together with that remark, that it confirmed 2 Thess,2:3 and 7-8.  Review the following translation history of 2 Thess.2:3 from Thomas Ice, in rebuttal of your views, in the following from my previous post you ignore:

 

>>>2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure."  In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation of the Greek Septuagint, known as the Vulgate, from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the Latin word "discessio," also meaning " departure." Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In verse 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.

 

Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!<<<

 

As I have previously posted, the Greek word "apostasia" has several meanings.  It is the root word for the English word, "apostasy.  It also means, "departure," or, "to depart.  Which of them is used depends on the text of the subject it is used in.  There is nothing whatever in either 1 Thess.4:13-18 or 2 
Thess.2:1-8 that justifies the use of the words, "apostasy," or "falling awy."  Because it is the teaching by Paul, about the rapture of the 
Church.

 

Quasar93 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Quasar93

[inchrist]

7 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

Quote by Inchrist: >>>"This is nothing more than an attempt to suppress the biblical right to test all things.

You do not own the right to biblical interpretation. Period!

You have been shown your symbolism of John/church in Rev 4 to be inconsistent....does Dr Ice not have a rebuttal on the inconsistency for you?"<<<

 

To the contrary.  In all of my posts to you, as in the very one you quoted me in your reply to me, are open invitations to prove the views you have, as revealed in my following remarks that you quoted:

Quote by Inchrist: >>>"This is nothing more than an attempt to suppress the biblical right to test all things.

 

You do not own the right to biblical interpretation. Period!

 

You have been shown your symbolism of John/church in Rev 4 to be inconsistent....does Dr Ice not have a rebuttal on the inconsistency for you?"<<<

 

 

To the contrary.  In all of my posts to you, as in the very one you quoted me in your reply to me, are open invitations to prove the views you have, as revealed in my following remarks that you quoted:

 

>>>"The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul That you reject, insisting you know better than they do.  Prove any of the following is false, or your views are.  You remain refuted.  Case closed."<<<

Your claim my views that Rev.4:1-2 symbolize the Apostle John symbolizing the Church being called up into heaven before the tribulation begins, as being inconsistent, could not be further from the truth.  I stated together with that remark, that it confirmed 2 Thess,2:3 and 7-8.  Review the following translation history of 2 Thess.2:3 from Thomas Ice, in rebuttal of your views, in the following from my previous post you ignore:

>>>2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
 

Nothing is confirmed with 2 Thess 2:3

I'm addressing your so called symbolism of john/church rev 4

The symbolism is inconsistent

Rev 1

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, ¹¹ which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: 

Is john now John or the church?