Conversation about the Tribulation and God`s Wrath.

[Steve Conley]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Steve,

I also agree that the day of the Lord time period goes through the millennium too. However that was not what my diagram was about. It seems to me you are saying there is the great Earthquake etc at the beginning of the trib, and at the end of the trib,

That great earthquake written about in Joel and Matthew and Revelation, tells us that it was so great that there had not been one like it before. Thus it is only at the end of the trib, when the Lord comes in power and great glory.    

Revelation 16: 18 & 19

 `….and there was a great earthquake such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great, and the great city was divided into three parts and the cities of the nations fell……..and every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.`

Marilyn.

 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Marilyn C, there is an earthquake (Isa 2:19, Rev 6:12-17) on the day of Christ's parousia (Matt 24:27). The earthquake along with the cosmic sign portends His arrival (Joel 2:31). The day of His arrival is the beginning of the day of the Lord (1Thes 5:2-3; 2Thes 1:6-10). Before His wrath is poured out on that day (1Thes 5:9; Rev 3:10) the dead in Christ shall be resurrected (1Cor 15:23, 51-52) and those saints who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to be with the Lord in the air (Matt 24:31; 1Thes 4:15-17). Then we will be safely escorted to the Fathers house (John 14:3) to stand before the throne (Rev 7:9-17).

The mega earthquake in Rev 6:12 is not the same one as in Rev 16:18. The one happens before the wrath of God begins with the first trumpet judgment and the other happens at the seventh vial judgement which is the wrath of God. There is a significant amount of time between them. It will take some time for all the trumpet and vial judgments to be executed upon the earthdwellers. The 5th trumpet/1st woe will take five months by itself.

The first earthquake is said to be great but not unparalleled like the last.

Concerning the use of the word trib, the Holy Scriptures present a great tribulation (intense persecution upon believers in Christ and Israel) that begins in the middle of the week and continues until Christ comes in the clouds resurrecting/rapturing His own and beginning the day of the Lord. This ends the great tribulation and begins the tribulation of the day of the Lord. When you use the word trib I don't know what you mean. Are you saying the whole seventieth week as many contend, are you saying the second half of the week that includes great tribulation first followed by the wrath of God on the day of the Lord, or are you talking about just the day of the Lord which takes up the last portion of the second half of the week.

Hallelujah

 

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

 

Hi Steve,

Thank you so much for the diagram it really helps to see what you think. Obviously I agree with a lot of it, but not all. So the point in question, which we are working through together is the timing of the Lord`s return to earth.

So.....Where do you see the Lord returning in power and great glory and destroying the world`s armies around Jerusalem? (Zech. 14: 12   &  Rev. 19: 15)

Marilyn.

BTW when I get home from my holiday I`ll do a diagram too.

 

[Steve Conley]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Steve,

Thank you so much for the diagram it really helps to see what you think. Obviously I agree with a lot of it, but not all. So the point in question, which we are working through together is the timing of the Lord`s return to earth.

So.....Where do you see the Lord returning in power and great glory and destroying the world`s armies around Jerusalem? (Zech. 14: 12   &  Rev. 19: 15)

Marilyn.

BTW when I get home from my holiday I`ll do a diagram too.

 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Marilyn C., there is only one future coming (parousia) and it involves all of Christ's activity from His arrival (Matt 24:30; 1Thes 4:15; 5:2-3) on into His eternal reign. The Revelation 19:15 passage refers to Christ's action at the end of the seventieth week involving the destruction of the Beast, False Prophet, and the armies that follow them. His arrival on the other hand occurs after the cosmic sign spoken of by Joel appears essentially cutting short the great tribulation at some point in the second half of the week. That cosmic sign and a great earthquake will portend His return, the start of the day of the Lord, and the start of the day of Christ. The day of the Lord is Christ's return with emphasis upon His interaction with the world (wrath upon the earth dwellers) and the day of Christ is Christ's return with emphasis upon His interaction with His church (resurrection, rapture, judgement seat of Christ, etc).

Hallelujah

[Marilyn C]

22 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Marilyn C., there is only one future coming (parousia) and it involves all of Christ's activity from His arrival (Matt 24:30; 1Thes 4:15; 5:2-3) on into His eternal reign. The Revelation 19:15 passage refers to Christ's action at the end of the seventieth week involving the destruction of the Beast, False Prophet, and the armies that follow them. His arrival on the other hand occurs after the cosmic sign spoken of by Joel appears essentially cutting short the great tribulation at some point in the second half of the week. That cosmic sign and a great earthquake will portend His return, the start of the day of the Lord, and the start of the day of Christ. The day of the Lord is Christ's return with emphasis upon His interaction with the world (wrath upon the earth dwellers) and the day of Christ is Christ's return with emphasis upon His interaction with His church (resurrection, rapture, judgement seat of Christ, etc).

Hallelujah

Hi Steve,

Now please forgive me if I seem to be labouring this point, for I have not come across your view before. Others have bits and pieces of it, but not the whole view. So...it seems to me, (just trying to understand here) that you have the Lord on the earth from the time of the great earthquake etc through 6 months till He deals with the world`s armies. Is that how you see it?

Marilyn.

[Steve Conley]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Steve,

Now please forgive me if I seem to be labouring this point, for I have not come across your view before. Others have bits and pieces of it, but not the whole view. So...it seems to me, (just trying to understand here) that you have the Lord on the earth from the time of the great earthquake etc through 6 months till He deals with the world`s armies. Is that how you see it?

Marilyn.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Marilyn C., the Lord is not on the earth during all that time. His parousia begins by gathering us to Him in the air and taking us to the Father's house to stand before the throne (Rev 7:9-17). After that his wrath is poured out and He deals with the armies that follow the Beast.

It isn't necessarily 6 months. The chart says > (greater than) 6 months but less than ~ (approximately) 3.5 years. From the info given to us that is the length of the wrath of God in the later portion of the second half of the week. The great tribulation and God's wrath are distinct from each other but they share the second half of the week. First is the great tribulation of unknown length (but less than 3 years) after that God's wrath begins at the first trumpet judgment and takes the remaining portion of the week.

Hallelujah

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Marilyn C., the Lord is not on the earth during all that time. His parousia begins by gathering us to Him in the air and taking us to the Father's house to stand before the throne (Rev 7:9-17). After that his wrath is poured out and He deals with the armies that follow the Beast.

It isn't necessarily 6 months. The chart says > (greater than) 6 months but less than ~ (approximately) 3.5 years. From the info given to us that is the length of the wrath of God in the later portion of the second half of the week. The great tribulation and God's wrath are distinct from each other but they share the second half of the week. First is the great tribulation of unknown length (but less than 3 years) after that God's wrath begins at the first trumpet judgment and takes the remaining portion of the week.

Hallelujah

Ok Steve,

I think I have finally got a handle on you view. So this is what I find difficult with some of it. First I`ll write out the relevant scripture.

Revelation 6: 12 – 17.

`And behold when He had opened the sixth seal, and lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and ever bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;

For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand."

So here we see cosmic changes, with great earth quaking and moving of mountains and islands. So great are these cataclysmic happenings that everyone in the whole world seeks to hide from God, as they know He is about to judge them.

Then I hear that you think there is then 6 months or more for people to come out of hiding and think - "False alarm? or We`ll fight God? or ???"

Marilyn.  

 

[Steve Conley]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Ok Steve,

I think I have finally got a handle on you view. So this is what I find difficult with some of it. First I`ll write out the relevant scripture.

Revelation 6: 12 – 17.

`And behold when He had opened the sixth seal, and lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and ever bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;

For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand."

So here we see cosmic changes, with great earth quaking and moving of mountains and islands. So great are these cataclysmic happenings that everyone in the whole world seeks to hide from God, as they know He is about to judge them.

Then I hear that you think there is then 6 months or more for people to come out of hiding and think - "False alarm? or We`ll fight God? or ???"

Marilyn.  

 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Marilyn C., all these cosmic and geologic happenings take place upon a single day, the day of Christ's arrival. The world which has been buying and selling, marrying and giving in marriage, eating and drinking, and planting and building, while they worshiped the Beast and persecuted the elect and Israel shall be caught like a thief, unawares. However, Jesus told us that when we see these things begin to come to pass look up and lift up our heads for our redemption draweth nigh. Only the earth dwellers are hiding from the imminent wrath of the Lamb that is poured out suddenly later that very same day. We will be taken to Jesus by the angels to be eternally with Him. There is no false alarm.

• first three seals=beginning of sorrows
• fifth and sixth seal=great tribulation
• sixth seal=cosmic sign portending his return and the whole world seeing Him coming in the clouds
• Resurrection/rapture
• 144,000 sealed for protection from the wrath of God while remaining upon the earth (Rev 7:1-8)
• the elect who were resurrected and raptured are escorted to the Fathers house to stand before the throne in Heaven (Rev 7:9-17)
• seventh seal opened (Rev 8:1)
• Half hour of silence (Rev 8:1)
• first trumpet blown=God's wrath begins to be poured out. His wrath will last the remainder of the second half or the week (Rev 8:7)

Hallelujah

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

 

Hi Steve,

So the people who are left after the great heaven and earth shaking, with the mountains falling and people crying out to be hidden from the Lord, those people - do they then come out of their holes and just go on living for the next 6 months or more?

Can you imagine the whole earth shaking? That means that normal life will not go on. The cities fall, every part of man`s civilisation would be overturned - power, roads, infrastructure, the whole world a war zone.

So then what?

Marilyn. 

[Daniel 11:36]

You can argue with Steve all you want, but he has been shackled into his idea of a mid-tribulation setting

The 70th week of Daniel is the tribulation period and it begins with Revelation 6:12-17

7 years of nonstop judgments against an unbelieving world ending up with the Armageddon war

The first of 4 of the judgments will be the fall of the US knocking it out of the game and all of the rest will come [Revelation 8:2-12; 14:8]

Then the Lord will revisit the US at the end of the tribulation period and divide it into 3 parts ending the last of the survivors [Revelation 16:18-21]

Revelation 8 thru 19 covers the entire 7 year tribulation + 30 days for the battle of Armageddon

Then the Lord will appear upon the earth and separate all of the living survivors, those believing will enter and populate His millennial kingdom as mortals

Those in unbelief will be sent to their death  

 

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Christine]

@Daniel 11:36

With respect Daniel, no stretch of the imagination can make Revelation 16:18-21 refer to the US, or the other references you give from the book of Revelation.

In Christ Jesus

Chris

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Christine